Scottish Independence.
 

Not sure this thread belongs here but here goes.


Mostly applies to British users but everyone can give their opinion, the more the merrier.

It is exactly one week until the Scottish independence referendum, the polls open on the 18th of September and it will be the biggest decision the country will face in a LONG time.

I LOVE being Scottish and I'm fiercely patriotic of where I come from, like most naturally. I'm also extremely proud to be a British citizen and able benefit from being part of the United Kingdom. However, if independence were to work out for the country... Why not?

I'm basically looking for information on what the pros and cons of both independence and staying with the union. At the moment I'm a solid NO voter but I'd like to make an educated vote on what is best for both Scotland and the rest of the UK.

Please play nice.

We have our nuclear weapons stored in Scotland. Please don't leave. The idea of Alex Salmond with nuclear weapons is terrifying.

I don't think it is happening. It will be a long fight before Scotland has a chance to become independent.

I'm no expert on the subject obviously, but wouldn't independence only serve to make both Scotland and what's left of the UK a whole lot weaker?

Rostasi, you make a nice point.

I'm not an expert either, and maybe "Balkanization" is too strong of a term... I am wondering if that happens to the UK, and they become weaker like you said, the EU would have an even stronger influence over them. It doesn't seems like it would be trading power from Westminster to Edinburgh but from Westminster to Brussels.

Not really
At the moment the UK gets one veto, if Scotland leaves it still gets one veto.
As for MEP's there will be less but they tend to vote via party policy rather than by country so that won't make a lot of difference either.

I'm betting it passes, and then all hell breaks loose. I agree with the opposition though. If you drag the nukes 10 miles down the coast, have you really made anyone safer?

Over time the nuclear weapons would be eradicated from Scotland. It wouldn't be an immediate effect but they would leave.


Urban, I'm most interested in your thoughts tbh. What are the circumstances that the Channel Islands are in and would an independent Scotland have the same privileges as them?



I'm also worried that being an independent country with some oil resources would result in some other country realising we have next to no defences and invading us for it. Not saying it would happen but if it did there would pretty much nothing we could do.

You'd be in the same situation as we are.

You could still use the pound as currency like we do.
The good side of that is because it's still technically a British pound it'll still be worth the same if you buy anything in the rest of Britian.

The downside of that is because it's the British pound and you won't have any MPs in Westminster any more so you'll have no say in how it's run you'll just be dictated to by the British government and you'll have to swallow it.

Also you'll find yourself in the situation that you can use English notes in Scotland, but won't be able to use Scottish notes in England. Much like how Guernsey & Jersey money can only be used in the Channel Islands but not Britain.

Also because we're not in the EU we're not subjected to by any of their laws although our government does tend to still follow some by choice, especially if you want to trade with them, all your goods will still have to meet with their standards.

The biggest worry you have is lots of your big businesses relocating to England, Royal Bank of Scotland have already said if it Scotland becomes independent they're going to relocate because most of their customers are based in the rest of Britain and if independence happens they're going to lose a lot of customers because their money won't be protected under British law anymore.

Basically yeah.

Know a Rangers lad from Glasgow and he is fiercely against this and hoping common sense prevails. The polls seem to be moving in the favour of independence and he's getting a bit worried now. I know another pair of Scots who are in favour of yes but they are really out of touch with reality & bitter and would just as likely be walking round in shit tracksuits chanting EDL if they were born on the other side of the border.

The SNP promises more benefits for the poor while offering lower tax rates :confused:.

I am hoping something will intervene and people aren't just being blinded by patriotism.

Stronger together :cool:.

I don't think you can hold Rangers fans up as bastions of common sense. A fairly sizable amount of them are the most blindly patriotic, bigoted, BNP/EDL supporting people in Scotland. All those of that persuasion are voting No.

I say this as someone who grew up supporting Rangers. Myself and many of my 'proddy' pals are voting Yes, and believe me it is not out of patriotism or nationalism or anti-English sentiment. These definitely exist, but in my personal experience there's a much more sizable number who are simply trying to create a better country. It's about self-determination, getting the governments and politics we want, creating a more equal society, getting rid of nuclear weapons and their fiscal burden, and a million other reasons.

Whatever the outcome, there is a real engagement with politics in Scotland now. We have been able to channel our disillusionment with Westminster into something positive and hopeful. In England, it seems that it's been channeled into UKIP and right-wing politics, or at least more so than anything else. It's an exciting time, but there will definitely be challenges if we get independence, and there's definitely an overly idealistic side to some sections of the Yes movement. But with the vast resources we have, I don't see why we can't overcome these challenges.

Kayleigh - highly recommend you read this:
Wings Over Scotland | The Wee Blue Book

and this:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkin...-thats-bizarre


And mind - it's not all about Salmond/SNP ;)

I can't see any reason why
- having our own government (that we actually voted for)
-representatives in parliament that were actually able to serve the needs of their constituents
-the ability to make our own international relations
-not deploying troops to fight in illegal invasions
-having complete control over our highly valuable natural resources
-having 100% of taxpayers money spent on Scottish people and society
-creating a fairer and more equal society
-raising the national minimum wage
-the ability to have not devolved, but complete course and direction over the governing and management of our own people
-not paying for high speed railines or a Royal Family that do nothing for us, one because they're not being constructed in our country, the other because they do literally nothing and the concept of a Monarchy is ludicrous in a supposed 21st Century democracy

would make us weaker.

Any 'No' vote is a waste of the best opportunity we've ever had for creating better lives for ourselves as a nation. Imagine being the only country in the world dumb enough to vote against their own freedom. The final shackles of the British Empire need to be broken.

It could possibly be a mistake for Scotland.


If Scotland Goes: 'A Mistake As Big As The Great Depression' - Forbes

Scottish independence: ten key issues - Telegraph

This is already the case!

Agree with all of this. Solid response.

One of the most exaggerated claims ever put into print. The many factors that led to The Great Depression could not and would not happen again in today's environment nevermind in Scotland.


Essentially I am voting yes because I am tired of living in a country that has these delusions of grandeur on the world stage. I want to live in a country where the people are happy and taken care of, not one that spends money on illegal wars and nuclear weapons that don't sit right with me morally.
This country's political climate is moving further away from my vision of a respectable society by the day. The people of Scotland are traditionally left leaning and socialist, so why are we being represented by a slew of politicians spouting near identical versions of the same old neoliberalism? Why are we living in a country where UKIP have a huge amount of support when Nigel Farage is greeted with angry mobs everytime he makes an appearance in Scotland? We need our elected parties to have full control, so we can begin to build a fair and just society that we can be proud of. I'd like to live in a country that tries to be more like Scandinavia than a country that trie to be more like America.
This video nails it, although the man speaking is a bit of a prat.

Actually it's not, you see them here all the time.
They don't have to be accepted, but they can be used.

Yeah, they're legal tender but in my experience are rarely accepted.

If Scotland becomes independent, will it still be part of the EU or will it have to reapply?

Scottish independence: ten key issues - Telegraph

I don't know if the writer is hinting that Spain would block it (Scotland's reapplication into the EU) to send a sign to regions that want to break away from Spain. I think when he say "problems with secessionist movements" he is alluding to the Basque region.

I know absolutely nothing about the politics behind this all but I am very interested in watching what happens and reading the various viewpoints being shared. Thanks for starting the thread, K, and I hope whatever happens is ultimately in the best interest of at least MB's resident Scots.

Seems like quite an exciting time.

Ewan Morrison – YES: Why I Joined Yes and Why I Changed to No | wakeupscotland

Excellent.

:laughing:

Reading that in-accent makes it so great.

Have the votes been counted yet?

Looks like it's a no.

Was never in doubt. Correct decision. Common sense >>>

Knew it wouldn't pass, independence is usually just a romantic notion rather than a practical one, especially when people have their thinking heads on. It's the old adage of strength in numbers usually holds true.

BBC News - Scottish referendum: Alex Salmond to quit as first minister

:D

Punctuation fail.

Please there is no Scottish independence. Like I am surprised. NOT. United Kingdom remains together. I wonder why the hell United Kingdom even exists in the first place?

Lack of tidal waves in the Atlantic Ocean?

In a nutshell, Queen Elizabeth I never married, so she named King James VI of Scotland her heir.

I hear you. Man Queen Elizabeth I was not married in her life. So unfortunate. For now, United Kingdom remains.

He wanted political union but all his attempts failed, it wouldn't happen for another 100 years after him being crowned.

The main reason Scotland joined the Union in the first place was because it's banks and it's nobility lost a fortune in failed investments in Panama and needed bailing out.
It had nothing to do with the English subjecting them to anything, they entered in voluntarily.

Couldn't agree more Urban.

Darien scheme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We basically have got England to bail us out and have on several occasions. I'd rather have voted NO and have a safe future than have voted YES and just hope for the best when we became independent. If we went independent then the nations would have sat down together and drew up some information on economy, tax, etc... For the next 18months.. Why couldn't they have done that in the first place, then vote? I'd rather not gamble my children and grand childrens future like that not knowing what sort of country we would be living in.

It wouldn't have really matter much to me anyway if it had been a yes vote because my full family including my boyfriend would lose their jobs if they didn't move south of the border, so I'd probably be drawing up plans to move to London right now or if I wasn't with Kris then I would go travelling.

I think both the yes and no voters who have been at Glasgow George's Square in the past few days rioting, burning Saltires and Union Jacks should hang their head in shame, they are a complete embarrassment to our country and not a true representation of our people. We need to build a bridge and get over this divide and hatred that the referendum has caused. The nation has spoke and we are still part of Great Britain.

Most laughable thing on Facebook has been a number of people before they knew the results of the vote proclaiming that they were Scottish and proud, patriotic, more patriotic than a no voter... Then around 8hrs later were 'utterly embarrassed' be Scottish.

Just another bipolar day in Scotland...

^ That post pleases me.

& Yeah it's funny that, Scotland went broke then the English reinstated their wealth, how do people think the English would have treated the Scots if they'd left the Union?

:cool:

That's what I kept thinking while reading about this story. It seemed like there were a lot of big promises coming from the "Yes" leadership without much practical thought being put into them, for example the bizarre notion they seemed to have that they could break off from the UK without being saddled with their share of the UK's debt.

I'm no Republican, and I voted for Obama, but a lot of that sounded like the same meaningless, pretty sounding, "Yes, we can!" sloganeering that he was doing during his first election. Gets the young people excited, but has no practical value.