America is pretty much identical to the Roman Republic. The rich get richer, and if you upset them they can very easily make you disappear. I'm not saying that justice is for hire, but the rich and powerful definitely have enough pull to get away with most anything they want. But people in Ancient Rome were technically protected by the law to be able to say what they wanted to say, except in cases of treason (which is still something you can be accused of in America, though it isn't often) and slander/libel.

As for sources, this is a good article that goes into the history of "Freedom of Speech" in different countries: 2. Free speech in history |
Greco-Roman freedoms were by no means perfect and always protected, but the ideal was there.

I consider victim blaming, blame shifting, blame sharing to be quite grotesque. The only blame for the murders in this case, lies squarely on the shoulders of the lunatics who committed those murders.

And the problem with keeping quiet and not "poking the hornet's nest" is that you could apply it to any situation where people stand up for themselves against others who threaten to do them harm. Any of the rights most of us in the Western world probably tend to take for granted; civil rights, gay rights, women's rights (just to name a few) would probably be little more than fantasies had it not been for people who continued to speak out and offend and anger those who were against them. And those who continue to speak out for those (and other) issues today all over the world are often threatened with death by lunatics of all stripes. The world would be much worse off if nobody was willing to risk speaking out against those who try to intimidate others into silence and submission through fear and intimidation.

That was very well written. I agree completely with your sentiments.

No-one in this thread has said otherwise.

But the difference is, I believe there is a time and place for everything.

Where have I cracked jokes about dead people?

That depends on what side you're on, but personally I blame all the parties involved here, as they say it takes two to tango.

What lunatics are you talking about, the soulless terrorists or the western sponsored forces in the Middle East?

Yes but these examples you've put above are not really comparable to the situation being discussed here in the Middle East. The set of examples you've put above are minorities looking to have their say and expressing themselves within the state mechanism. This is a very different scenario to dealing with fanatical and stateless terrorists who owe no allegiance to any real government or moral code that you/we might be familiar with. It's like going into a lunatic asylum and harping on about civil liberties to the inmates....... I doubt you'd get too much sense out of them.

The above is just romantic dawdling that is usually very good in theory, but in reality needs refinement before it's put into practice, because globalisation and means of travel has made the world a much smaller place, thus creating a greater furnace for world problems. It's all good and well speaking out against tyranny and restriction in a civilised society which has the means to address these issues, taking that practice overseas and into a different cultural environment is a far trickier and more dangerous thing to achieve, as facts have proved.

Hey Unknown Soldier. So what you're saying is, i'm being too rigid and uncompromising with my ideals, and that the world is much more morally gray than an idealistic youngster like I can understand? And that as I grow older, I'll come to realize that the truth often lies not in extremes, but in the balance between them? So basically, I should give in to my inevitable aging and moral relaxation, while still finding a way to be true to who I am? That I should surrender, but not give myself away?



Heh, couldn't resist. Cheers!

:laughing: yes you're young an idealistic, but you have to find your own way in life and that's for you to decide, and it should only be your decision.

Compromise though is probably one of the most important actions a person can adopt and applies to nearly everything a person engages in. Some people are good at it, others not very and dictatorial types suck at it.

All I'm more or less saying, is the tragic deaths involved at the magazine really could've been avoided if restraint (not surrender) had been shown, a smart general withdraws his troops from the field when things aren't going well, as he knows he can come back and fight another day.

I hear ya', and agree. By the way, I never realized how good Cheap Trick was live until I embedded that video just then.

The religion of peace:

Saudi blogger receives first 50 lashes of sentence for 'insulting Islam' | World news | The Guardian

You really need to check out the live Budokan album and dvd.



Apologies to those that want to talk about terrorists, but there are more important things in life like Cheap Trick to talk about.