The French Massacre - Do We Stand Up For Free Speech?
 

12 people are dead, many of them cartoonists because they made multiple cartoons depicting Mohammed. The gunmen said they were from Al Qaeda. The magazine had been threatened before and now the extremists have come in to murder those responsible for those making light of their religion. The gunmen are still on the loose.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ack.html#video

What are your thoughts on this? Is it Al Qaeda/ISIS? Do we continue to joke about all religions using freedom of speech? Will these mass killings lead to war eventually? Is the West provoking the East to give them a reason to attack?

Yes, free speech >>>

Maajid Nawaz was talking sense earlier, saying that the Islamic communities need to start addressing this issue of blasphemy and reform their outlook on it cos until attitudes change you're gonna have idiots like this born out of it.

Maajid's a Muslim ftr.

Of course free speech is still important. People need to learn that nothing is sacred to assholes like myself who will satirize or mock any old thing. It's just a fact of life and shooting up a bunch of people isn't going to change it.

Such a tough and complex issue. Yes, free speech is extremely important, but it's also wise not to poke the bear over and over again with it.

If anyone's interested here's a link that has all of the cartoons the magazine's done over the years. Never mind poking the bear, this is more like walking right up to it and punching it in the nose.

What Is Charlie Hebdo? The Cartoons that Made the French Paper Infamous

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2015...20644540-1.jpg

lol'd when I clocked the tattoo.

Ya, they hold nothing and no-one sacred. Personally, I'd choose not to f*ck with a religion that has whack job extremists like ISIS and Al Qaeda defending it's holy book.

Free speech is an inherent human right, and religion is a man-made phenomenon that contains learned doctrines that people will follow blindly. Using violence to eradicate a perceived contempt for ones religion is a heresy. I can see being a bit butt-hurt when someone makes fun of a persons way of life, but killing 12 people is rather... extreme.

To answer the question though, you'd have to kill me to shut me up.

All the more respect for this magazine.

They're actually quite racist.

I'm not defending what happened in any way, shape, or form. It's repulsive.

How are they racist?

It's too bad that defending freedom of speech also includes defending ****ty and/or racist comedians. I'd still follow Voltaire's suit on the situation, though.

On the cover of Charlie Hebdo: Michel Houellebecq's 'Islamophobic' book - LA Times

Again, what happened is awful. But why poke such a dangerous (and insane) bear over and over and over again? Especially after you were told that something like this would happen if you kept doing it?

This is less about free speech and more about lack of common sense to me in many ways.

So they are racist because they featured a controversial writer/book on the cover?

Because the people who can't take criticism are often the ones who need it the most. There are some people who won't be bullied into submission, and these chaps risked (and gave) their lives to speak their minds (which by extension, contributes to a world where you can freely speak your mind).

I don't agree at all with this "they had it coming" nonsense.

Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, my post comes off as a kind of passive-aggressive reponse. Didn't mean to offend.

Ja that's not racist, it's just an attempt at being edgy. My comment was more general, I wasn't insinuating anything about the comic.

But they are not criticizing people in the normal sense. These are insane, lunatic, whack job, religious fanatics willing to blow themselves up for the cause.

And I'm not trying to imply "they had it coming" at all. (no offense taken BTW)

Yep, those people should be our role models for having the balls.
Everyone should be mocking fundamentalists.
Sadly I'm the first to admit that I would be to scared.

You do have a point but you've just said it yourself bud. Islam is not unique in that it is mocked but it is unique in how it reacts (look at the differing responses to South Park depicting the prophet Muhammad/entire show on Mormonism for example). Islam is the one that responds with violence. It is not the first time people have died because the prophet Muhammad was depicted in a cartoon.

The obvious point is that shit like Draw Muhammed Day came about because of the reaction to those cartoons and to emphasise the point they can, and to highlight the people complaining about it.

It would be pointless if it got no reaction, but the fact it does shows it's an issue worth highlighting. These knobheads today are just proving this point.

When you've got the Guardian of all papers backing this argument you know something's up.

Free speech must not be silenced in the wake of Charlie Hebdo attack | Media | The Guardian

Not Islam.

Islamic extremists (terrorists). There's about 2 billion followers of Islam in the world so it's not fair to paint them all with a broad brush.

I have never once said all Muslims are like that and I've made a point consistently on here when criticising Islam that I'm not talking about Muslims as people, of course it is a minority, I'm not sure if you know the demographics of Birmingham and in particular the ward I live in but I go to the match with Muslims who drink and gamble, I know very well they aren't all extreme or even practising. There are moderates in everything from party politics to sport to whatever you like.

But it's Islam that typically responds like this which is why I mentioned the South Park thing. Look at the Danish cartoons. It's Islam we have to tiptoe around to protect it's delicate sensibilities. Even Maajid is saying it.

1.6bn btw.

Fair enough.

Looks like they've caught the guys that did it.

Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News - CNN.com

It isn't about whether it's right to mock Muslims and Islam--they cannot tolerate ANY criticism no matter what the intent is. To say, we shouldn't mess with them because they are dangerous speaks volumes about why something needs to be done about them.

Theo van Gogh (film director) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

anyone who even considers kowtowing to these bearded rascals should be deported to iraq so they can live under sharia away from the rest of us

I think that's a very small minority of people. In all honesty I wouldn't be surprised if this backfires and depictions of Muhammed become all the rage. Shoving our freedom of speech in their faces, so to speak.

honestly i don't necessarily want to be antagonistic for the sake of being antagonistic either. i mean i know i'm not going to go around drawing muhammad just to prove i can. is a certain point at which that's just being an obnoxious ******* for the sake of it. i just think that when **** like this goes down we have to stick up for the obnoxious *******s and let the extremists know that their tactics aren't going to make us compromise free speech. if extremists just attacked the *******s with words instead of bombs then i would say it's all fair game.

I don't think anyone has the right to force their way of life on anyone else. Everyone is entitled to live how they choose as long a they don't interfere with someone else's ability to do the same. Maybe that's an oversimplification but no matter what it's not acceptable to murder people because they don't agree with you. Unless it's the only option, I guess. IDK, conflict and violence appear to be a part of the human experience. Doesn't make it right or wrong, that's just part of being alive and human. In a more well-informed world maybe that wouldn't be the case but I feel that world is a ways away if it's anywhere to be found at all. More likely we'll become extinct before something so ****ing simple could happen. Bummer, dude.

Any person who uses religion to justify murder is someone who can't even take the responsibility of ending another's life, and that's ****ing cowardly.

I have two things I'm really worried about, the amount of innocent people that were killed, and how their families have to live with it, and the effect that these men had on Muslims. It's really frustrating seeing these zealots tout their supposed beliefs, and act as the voice of Islam. All they do is paint a bad picture for actual followers with their warped version of Islam, and push this warped one as the one and true. They are nothing but saboteurs and apostates with guns and no appreciation for life... or humor...

If someone told me to stop doing something or they would kill me I would absolutely keep doing that thing, and that does not make me the insane one.

:clap:

Violence just encourages more violence. It's not a problem solver.

:clap:

When the (unarmed) ceremonial guard at our war memorial was attacked last year, we took the guard down for a day or two. I felt that was a huge victory for the terrorists.

Interesting parallel to The Interview here, eh?

This is a very specific situation and I think trying to generalize it doesn't work.

Magazine does something strictly forbidden by Islamic law.
Angers Muslims all over the world.
Also angers some insane extremists with a cell close to the magazine.
Magazine keeps posting pictures that get more and more crude.
Worldwide anger persists, since again, what they are doing is against Islamic law.
Insane extremists (with a long history of brazen violence) warn them to stop.
Magazine ignores the threat.
Magazine is warned again and ignores the threat.
Today happens.

Is anyone surprised?

One of the shooters has surrendered. I hope they catch the other two soon and that all three of them rot in jail cells.

But I'm maintaining that the magazine editor might have used better judgment considering who he was dealing with and the fact that they were right in his back yard.

Hearing about terrorists killing 12 people in Paris was unsettling. It wasn't too long ago where there was a killing rampage at a Pakistani school.

In Pakistan school attack, Taliban terrorists kill 145, mostly children - CNN.com

Taliban Besiege Pakistan School, Leaving 145 Dead

Chula:
On one hand, I see where you're coming from w/ the "they should've seen it coming" stuff. And, maybe from a purely self preservation point of view, it was stupid to continue publishing.

However, I think continuing was the right thing to do even though it ended so bloodily. Censorship is something that cannot be allowed to happen coming from any group.

What happend was ****ed up, but I hate the idea of stuff not being published for fear of something like this happening. Self censoring due to fear is still censorship on the part of the party causing fear.

^ I think Chula means that common sense would tell you that ****ting on Islam under any tense is going to rile some people and probably get a group of extremists banging on your door. You are of course entitled to release whatever you want so do not think I am saying otherwise, (and I really, REALLY hate to **** on the dead) but someone like the editor should have said, "Hey I know I said **** those guys, but I think we need to invest in a triple locks for our doors, barricades for the windows, removing our business from the phone book, and maybe if a few of you could get a gun license and start carrying a loaded .44 at all times, we'd be better off."

This isn't the stone age guys, people can look up your address on the internet, plan to meet somewhere on facebook, rent a car or some ****, and drive to your business and kill you, all in less than a day's time and without ever alerting the police. Like I said, I really hate to speak ill of the dead, but really, this could have ended better than it did.

On that Monday-morning quarterback ****e, I dig it.

I see your point but at the same time complying with what's basically terrorism is surrendering to it. They have as much right to be against depictions of Muhommad as I have to depict Muhommad. I feel like this is one of those things where if you're against it, don't do it. Like drugs or something.

Well, okay, I can see how it would be sensible to take precautions against something happening. Agree w/ you there.

err not sure I agree with this. its just using someone's distaste (extreme distaste in this case) as a justification for doing something potentially dickish or dumb. like how a child will swear more if his/her mother tells them to stop. im just talking generally, not about this terrorist attack specifically. that cartoon publication seems like an "edgy tween" type deal, but obviously no one deserved to be murdered.

They made fun of all religions, especially Christianity. You don't see enraged Christians laying out revenge plans and murdering those making fun of the religion? People mock Jesus all the time. That's perfectly fine for the majority, but as soon as it's a religion we don't understand well it's a crime to insult their prophet? Because they are violent, ill tempered haters? Where is the peace that religion talks about? What is the point in following a religion if you're going to use it as a way to get off being violent or murdering someone under its's name?