Music Banter

Go Back   Music Banter > Community Center > The Lounge > Current Events, Philosophy, & Religion
Register Blogging Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Welcome to Music Banter Forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with over 70,000 other registered members. After you create your free account, you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 1,100,000 posts.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-20-2015, 10:58 AM   #441 (permalink)
ComputerHabenHerzschmerz
 
Neapolitan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Les Barricades Mystérieuses
Posts: 6,371
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tore View Post
Take the words "allahu akhbar" (or how it is spelled), it simply means something relatively harmless like "God is great", but I dare say most westerners today associate it with something a little more sinister, like a terrorist battle cry.
Not denying its more benign usage, but it is now and it was use in the very beginning of islam as a "battle cry." It is not a new development either but a radical step backwards.


Quote:
"When the confrontation begins, strike like champions who do not want to go back to this world. Shout, 'Allahu Akbar,' because this strikes fear in the hearts of the non-believers."

It has been used historically as a battle cry during war. It was first used in war by Muhammad in the Battle of Badr, the first battle in Islam.

Takbir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhanteimi View Post
Actually, I like you a lot, Nea. That's why I treat you like ****. It's the MB way.

"it counts in our hearts" - ʕººʔ
“I have nothing to offer anybody, except my own confusion.” ― Jack Kerouac.
“If one listens to the wrong kind of music, he will become the wrong kind of person.” – Aristotle.
"If you tried to give Rock and Roll another name, you might call it 'Chuck Berry'." - John Lennon
"I look for ambiguity when I'm writing because life is ambiguous." — Keith Richards ☮ 💖 ♫ ∞ ἰχθύς
Neapolitan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 11:58 AM   #442 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tore View Post
For someone who nitpicks, you don't seem to read my post thoroughly. Did my use of the word "islamism" indicate that I do not know its meaning? Did I write that islamism is harmless?

These are rhetorical questions.
you didn't specifically write that islamism is harmless, you wrote this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tore View Post
The actions of these terrorists is creating more and more such associations and if it goes far enough, you can end up in a situation where islamism and the harmless things that relate to the religion remind us of fear, violence and terror.
which sounded to me like you were grouping islamism with the harmless things that relate to the religion. maybe i misinterpreted your point, but that's just how it reads to me.
John Wilkes Booth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 12:01 PM   #443 (permalink)
Fck Ths Thngs
 
DwnWthVwls's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,257
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth View Post
i agree with the overall message of your post, just want to point out that islamism refers specifically to the political ideology of ruling through islam. i don't consider this to be harmless, personally.
I would take that with a grain of salt. I'm speaking purely through assumption here but if it's anything like every other religion it should be looked at as a generalized term with few or no absolute characteristics when put into practice. If this isn't the case please feel free to school me I'm naive to the subject.

The point I'm trying to make is: being a christian doesn't mean you don't support abortion or the death penalty, so why do islamists(?) have to support political ruling through islam? Harmfulness should be approached on a case by case basis and not be a stigma that you attach to an entire group of people.
__________________
I don't got a god complex, you got a simple god...
DwnWthVwls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 12:12 PM   #444 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,016
Default

Quote:
Islamism (Islam and -ism) or political Islam (Arabic: الإسلام السياسي‎ Islām siyāsī; or الإسلامية al-Islāmīyah) is a set of ideologies holding that "Islam should guide social and political as well as personal life".
Islamism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

that's the actual definition of the term from what i understand. so i'm not sure how i am attaching a stigma to anyone.
John Wilkes Booth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 12:15 PM   #445 (permalink)
Fck Ths Thngs
 
DwnWthVwls's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,257
Default

Ok but is it that way in reality? That's the point I was making. Definitions don't mean much if they don't represent reality. It's also why I used the christianity example. Here's another: the real definition of the swastika versus how it's viewed in western/european culture.

And "you" was a generalization not JWB specific.
__________________
I don't got a god complex, you got a simple god...
DwnWthVwls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 12:18 PM   #446 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,016
Default

i don't understand what you're saying. islamism is a term for a political ideology holding that islam should be the guiding set of principles by which a state should be ruled. it's not the same as islam, which is a religion. to me, saying that islamists don't necessarily support ruling through islam is like saying that communists don't necessarily support the redistribution of wealth.
John Wilkes Booth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 12:19 PM   #447 (permalink)
Fck Ths Thngs
 
DwnWthVwls's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,257
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth View Post
i don't understand what you're saying. islamism is a term for a political ideology holding that islam should be the guiding set of principles by which a state should be ruled. it's not the same as islam, which is a religion. to me, saying that islamists don't necessarily support ruling through islam is like saying that communists don't necessarily support the redistribution of wealth.
Ok. That's why I was confused and asking. I didn't know there is a difference.
__________________
I don't got a god complex, you got a simple god...
DwnWthVwls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 12:22 PM   #448 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,016
Default

well, there are some people (muslim and non-muslim alike) who will say there is no difference. but there are plenty of muslims that don't identify as islamists.
John Wilkes Booth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 12:34 PM   #449 (permalink)
ComputerHabenHerzschmerz
 
Neapolitan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Les Barricades Mystérieuses
Posts: 6,371
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tore View Post
For someone who nitpicks, you don't seem to read my post thoroughly. Did my use of the word "islamism" indicate that I do not know its meaning? Did I write that islamism is harmless?

These are rhetorical questions.
you didn't specifically write that islamism is harmless, you wrote this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tore View Post
The actions of these terrorists is creating more and more such associations and if it goes far enough, you can end up in a situation where islamism and the harmless things that relate to the religion remind us of fear, violence and terror.
which sounded to me like you were grouping islamism with the harmless things that relate to the religion. maybe i misinterpreted your point, but that's just how it reads to me.
I would probably used "Wahhabism/islam" where tore used "islamism/the religion" just to clarify things. I really don't to comment on how tore says things, but rather point out that you do worse than what you accuse him of doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth View Post
ah. i like free speech better than human life personally. life isn't worth living if you stand for nothing. that's why i ultimately respect the extremists more than i do you appeasers.
What "extremists" are you talking about? In that sentence you make it seem that you respect islamic "extremists."
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhanteimi View Post
Actually, I like you a lot, Nea. That's why I treat you like ****. It's the MB way.

"it counts in our hearts" - ʕººʔ
“I have nothing to offer anybody, except my own confusion.” ― Jack Kerouac.
“If one listens to the wrong kind of music, he will become the wrong kind of person.” – Aristotle.
"If you tried to give Rock and Roll another name, you might call it 'Chuck Berry'." - John Lennon
"I look for ambiguity when I'm writing because life is ambiguous." — Keith Richards ☮ 💖 ♫ ∞ ἰχθύς
Neapolitan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 12:38 PM   #450 (permalink)
subscribe to pewdiepie
 
Dharma & Greg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Beating GNR at DDR and keying Axl's new car
Posts: 36,754
Default

Still agreeing with JWB, since, no matter how racist and incendiary the cartoons, when they get published, the idea of killing over them is absurd, and anyone who would do it, not only needs to be brought to justice, but their ideology needs to be scrutinized in a public forum. Doing so would naturally inflame extreme Islamists even further, leading to greater violence, but I see that as a necessary evil when faced with a threat on Western ideals of freedom of speech. And considering the level of Arab immigration to Europe, I imagine that same influence that allows extremists in the Middle-East to exert control over moderate Muslims might start to come into effect if the populations reach a certain point. So there might actually be a threat to freedom of speech somewhere down the line. I say this as an American who isn't as up on European politics and news as his Old World brothers, but that's just how it seems to me.

But I also saw a Facebook thing posted by a friend on a forum that pointed out something I was previously unaware of.

Tens of thousands of Muslims flee Christian militias in Central African Republic - The Washington Post

I don't know how much news coverage it gets, but considering how much publicity the Paris thing is getting, versus the outcry over this, then I think that there's definitely a double standard, either A.) of media coverage concentrating on Muslim-on-Christian violence over Christian-on-Muslim violence, or B.) of media coverage concentrating on first world violence versus third-world violence (or at least what is perceived as third-world).

There certainly isn't such an issue with world-wide Christian terror groups, or "home grown" Christian terrorists at the level as home grown Islamist terrorists, but there are certainly extreme Christians in parts of the world with enough numbers to cause things like this who need to be called out on their religious bull**** in a more public way.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin & Hobbes
To evaluate my character my immediate pleasure is being pitted against my future greed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franco Pepe Kalle View Post
The Batlord is amazing man. He loves some fine woman and he gets horny easily. What is better than that.
Dharma & Greg is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads



© 2003-2019 Advameg, Inc.

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.2 ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.