Burn Out/Fade Away.
 

Ok, So I started this I guess to purge my psyche really. It's 7:30 on Wed and I should be in school today, but you know what man, not today. (:finger:.) So without going into to too much detail, here's a long story short. Some ******* I have been messing with for like 15 years, is an idiot junkie. Now before all you guys get offend. (I am a former idiot junkie.) Now, I have never seen junkie on this scale, and I have seen some crazy **** in my day. But never to where some one is that desperate to get off that, that they inject bath salts and heroin. Really? Bath Salts bro? Anyway, fyi for all you guys out there that thought this sounds tasty it is apparently a lethal combo. Now suffice it to say, I still get down when the urge comes along because I can't white knuckle sobriety, but I also can't be an ******* either because I have to much **** to do in my life. Like literally, ain't nobody got time to be strung out.

So, here is my question, since the guy mentioned oded and didn't die, and in light of my phone blowing up yesterday all day with messages, about how happy everyone was that I was there otherwise he'd be dead but we have to let him bottom out. Or other more irrational statements from dude's wife.

What I am wondering is some people's bottom is dead. So basically is that telling someone to let them die off. Survival of the fittest or what? I mean, ok say that I wasn't present in this situation right, and he did die in a burger king bathroom. I feel like everyone would be standing around weeping and blubbering oh boo hoo we could have done more to save him.... Blah, when anybody with an IQ above 5 can see why this idiot is behaving this way, which was basically like it was Death Wish Weekend. And I have seen this guy get annihilated, so for it to scare me, tells me ok someone has to help him.

So what do you all think? I guess what I mean is like, if some one you loved, and really cared for would you let them die? Or would you keep fighting cause as long as they are still breathing the eventually will grow up enough and not do this **** any more? To Tough Love, or Too Much Tough Love? That is the question, when is tough love absolutely ridiculous? Or is always appropriate and the best course of action in a situation like this?

With all things, there's a certain wisdom to balance in the situation. If you really love them, then of course you should stand by them when they are going through dark times. But at the same time, you have to entertain the possibility that they are beyond your help. It's a horrible situation without a clear answer, and I really hope you manage to get through everything alright. You're a real-life hero, you know, and you've saved and touched a great deal of lives.

Thanks, feels like **** to be honest. When I was younger I lived down the street from a man that wrestled a man with a gun , well Collin Furgesoun if that rings any bells? Guy just open fired in to a crowded train on Long Island in the 90's anyway the one of the men the stopped him from killing a **** load more people then he did lived two doors down from me and I watched him hide from media scrutiny grow a beard the whole nine man like jumping out a back window to get to work, I watched that split second decision he made tear apart his life.

And you know something the feeling for me is this, at some point I guess I feel like if you know a person really and truly you know they need an intervention from themselves, (cause the day before I tried to have him committed but it didn't work) if you know someone is that psycho, when do you step in to protect them from themselves. With junkies there is a certain amount on shinanaginz that goes on, and you can tell when it's just selfish antics, up to and including theft, passing out in public places, and the boring run of the mill horse**** sob story written by Mr. ****ing Crybaby. But this was like legitimately different so much so the day this happened I knew deep down he was gonna die, I knew it when I woke up. I kept him with me all day because of that feeling. So when **** goes from boring junk bag drama, to scary as hell is it really appropriate to be like "eh yer on yer own!"?

That's a tough question to answer. Looking at it technically, you're not really obligated to be his guardian angel, as he's an adult and is accountable for his own mistakes. But at the same time, it's a horrible feeling when someone gets hurt or even dies, and you believe that there was something you could have done to help them beforehand. This sounds like it's a very frustrating and draining situation for you, and I wish that I could offer more than just vague advice, but in the end I know that you'll find a way through it. Sometimes you just have to do what you can with what you have.

Which was looking back the reason I did what I did other then pure instinct.
Because I didn't want to put myself through the hell of 'could have,would have, should have'. That guilt is waaay to heavy for me man, I am to weak to carry that.

I dunno, I guess I feel like in essence there comes a friggin point where you can be too tough on someone. Because you never know what someone is capable of, **** dude could go on to win the noble prize. (Unlikely, but possible) Something someone told me a while back and it meant so much to me, was "You know Deborah Harry didn't reach her peak until 31". And you know what some people are late bloomers. So how do you let someone just drown and stand there and watch it happen from the shore line. I feel like that is a form of murder honestly. You can't make people help, and you can't make those who need help accept it, but knowing both those factors, I feel like one should be crafty enough to figure out how to help some knowing the constraints of the situation.

Other than being with someone 24 hours a day, there's only so much anyone can do in that situation. I lost six friends to overdoses over a ten year period. Four of them were in their mid to late 20's, one was 32 and one was 36. None of them wanted to stop doing what they were doing and no amount of pleading or pressuring changed their minds. I also have a few friends who came to their senses and wised up on their own. Ultimately, it's going to be up to your friend to stop playing self-destructive games with his life.

Pretty much word for word what I was going to say. I've lost a few on the way, and there's really nothing anyone can do except be there for them when they need you.

,

This I know, I have been dealing with this for a very long time, see we used to use together, he gave me my first does of LSD, and then we evenutally spiraled outta control, so there is already a codependant bond we have together, which I know is sick in it's own right, because I don't tolerate this **** from anyone except him. See the bitch of the situation was the end result of Death Wish Weekend was him saying to me get me to help, and he conned me (and I fell for it) into stopping so he could use the bathroom, I was 2 blocks away from the rehab. That is the bitch of it.

But see here is the real kicker, is the version of bath salts he was taking, (I've been educating myself this am, because I have never seen anything like this. ) makes you paranoid, delisuional, screaming in terror for no reason, completely black out, rage, depression, suicidal. But these side effects last 5-15 days, especially if you inject. He started doing this **** Friday, and he oded for the 4th time Monday. That to me screams hey ****in lock him up, either in jail, or the mental hospital I don't ****ing care which because see he couldn't have tied his own shoes without trying to eat the ****in laces man. So at what point do people say, hey man you are incapable of even deciding you want to live. We don't let mentally challenged folks make those decisions for themselves, and someone that wacked out shouldn't have ever been allowed leave a hospital 1 time let alone 3.

Maybe if he does something to attract the attention of the police and gets picked up and sent into a psych ward for evaluation, he might be able to get whatever help he needs (that actually happened to a friend of mine and luckily it worked.) Other than that, it doesn't look like there's much you can do beyond what you've already done.

Yeah I am not trying to do anything except get back to normal. I know I gave it the old college try man. And I haven't washed my hands completely of him. But **** look me up when you get outta jail, (he is going away again for a stint after this stunt) See the issue with the bath salts is you have fleeting moments of reality, and when I tried to have him committed the day before he tried to die, the police went to his squat and talked to him and knew he wasn't right, but the laws are such in Fla that they can't baker act you unless you say you want to kill yourself or someone else. So when they talked to me about that which I already knew, I was like please just go look. Our system is broken man. I am all about tripping my titties off, having a blast, and getting stoned man. But ****in A, there was nothing partyesque about this, and I feel like there should be laws against this kinda of thing. I tried to tell them hey he's been taking this **** called alpha -php and its ****in him up but again when the cops did a wellness check he was lucid enough to not have dope on him. So what do you do, you have a drug with fleeting moments of reality, and you can tell someone wants to live, because if that weren't the case he'd have not had the presence of mind to not have **** on him. Whether he wanted to live to keep using, or live because he wants it is neither here nor there.

My lack of life experience renders me incapable of offering any practical advice, so all I can say is that I'm sending positive vibes in your general direction, Roxy. It's an awful situation for you. :(

I had to finally sever ties with one of my best friends back when we were in our early 20s. Dude was a raging alcoholic and drug abuser who flat out lost his mind when really messed up. The final straw was him getting arrested out in front of my house after leading the cops on a chase. The local cops knew him (and me) well so they let me spend most of the night sitting outside of his cell to talk him down. We even held hands thru the bars. He got bailed out the next morning and I took him out for breakfast where he swore up and down that he was finally going to get his **** together.

That night I got a call from the cops a few towns over saying that he was completely wasted and had assaulted an officer, was in jail, and was asking for me to come and bail him out. I gave them his mom's number instead and that was it. I was done with him. Too many years of that **** and I decided it was less painful having to turn my back on him that dealing with him anymore.

Amazingly he's still alive (he got really heavily into heroin for a while) although a total wreck from what I've heard.

So my advice is to ask yourself: Would it be less painful to turn your back that to keep dealing with his sh*t?

I commented on this in the thread Exo made but I'll repeat it here even though you'll probably disagree. For starters, I currently live in a town riddled with heroin (~150 heroin related OD deaths last year in just this town), grew up in town where tons of kids used it, and I'm still in contact with a few users. I lost 5+ friends/acquitances to ODs and drug related deaths in HS alone.

They are grown ups who need to be held accountable for their own decisions. You express your concern one time, be a good friend without enabling them, and if they shit on you than fuck em. I am not gonna waste my life picking up after people who willing destroy their own. I'm under the assumption that most of these people understand the consequences of their actions but have decided that they enjoy a life being doped out over stressing about all of life's burdens and taking the good with the bad. I don't hold it against them, I just don't think it's my responsibility to pamper adults. They die, I think it's a waste, and I move on.

He probably has tunnel vision on just getting high and doesn't or can't see the consequences of his addiction. There is only so much you can do as one person, and it seems he is beyond one friend helping him out, he needs professional help. Tell him the only thing you can do is be his voice of reason, moral support (or whatever you feel comfortable saying) if he wants to quit, but can stand by watching do this to himself. If this situation adds more stress in your life than you can handle you need tell him. Tell him how you feel.

I agree with your advice doll, because as much as I would like to say **** it all I don't have it in me. So arm's length is best. I can say the shoe has been on the other foot before and he never left me to my own devices.

But see, what is bothering me is I it from both an addict's perspective and a non addict perspective, I know what it is to be a completely self serving zombie.To not care about anything or anyone but my fix. It's almost like the person you know and love isn't in there they are replaced. Or it's like you become some manifestation of the drug itself. So saying they have to choose is kinda a double edged sword, because they are completely incapable of making decisions for themselves.

That choice should not be the addicts to make because even if they wanted they couldn't really make that choice.

And yet 1000s of people make that choice all across the country. Of course it takes a certain kind of person but I don't think all the responsibility should be removed from the addict. Some people need more help than others. Either way, good luck with your situation, I think you will make the best choice for you and your friend even without our advice. As much as I'd like to believe I have a good grasp of it the reality is I've never been an addict which puts me at a severe disadvantage.

I get that. But there are different levels of strung out and hung out.
When youv are a stage 5 clinger in deafcon 1 ,then you can't really even choose yer favorite cereal.

you sound high as **** roxy

Its well known I smoke weed everyday, mr grandhighpoobah of uppabutcrack. If ever there was a member that could benefit from a sensitivity training video itd be you.

my bad lol wasn't trying to insult you or anything

if it's any consolation i have way worse habits than just smoking weed every day

Insulted me,no.But sometimes you vome off a bit on the dickish side.

yea i've been getting that a lot lately. i think maybe ladyis--- was right and i'm just a sociopath. dunno what to do about that really.

Isn't that the exact image you were going for? Every time you enter a thread, you basically say "Hey everyone, you all suck and I disagree with you. If you would like to discuss my loathing of your point of view even further, give me a bit of notice so I can go make some popcorn". I mean, you even started a thread called "Come get me" about getting people to insult you. And the "Your favorite rapper sucks" thread about finding flaws with musicians that people like.

You constantly refer to yourself as "a dick", to the point where it's painfully obvious that you want people to think that. But by how quick you always are to apologize, it's pretty obvious that you're not really a sociopath. You're just trying to be the official "that guy" of Music Banter, to keep things interesting. But honestly, with Batlord still around, the only "that guy" that you're ever going to be known as is "that guy with horrible grammar who hates beards for some reason".

honestly half the time you guys get pissed at **** i say i didn't think it was offensive and then when i actually am anticipating a backlash i get nothing. i apologize cause really i don't want to get on anyone's bad side at the end of the day. like the roxy comment i honestly thought was pretty harmless. but when she said i need sensitivity training i assumed it was insulting at some level. the fact that you think i'm cultivating an image only makes me think i'm even more right.

also, i think you're just mad cause i sonned you in the muslims thread ;)

I'm not going to start a fight in a thread about serious subject matter. But what I will say is that I am not buying that you don't love to get people riled up. Half of your posts are just goading, like:

And i'm never going to forget that time that Unknown Soldier was trying to have a civil discussion with you, and you responded with this gem:

Or how about just a few minutes ago, when you came into this very thread, where Roxy is talking about having to deal with a friend who is addicted to drugs, and all you had to say was:

Can you really blame me for thinking that you like to start fights?

You mean the argument that ended with:

yea cause you kept avoiding my point and begging to be friends so i gave up lol

but yea roxy sorry for derailing your thread

also unknown solider wasn't trying to be civil with me dude was baiting me as well

and that feminism disclaimer was just that... a disclaimer. cause from what i have noticed this board is pretty sensitive about feminism for whatever reason and i knew i wasn't going to mince words.

i do feel bad about the roxy comment in retrospect though. it was only a response to her last post not the thread as a whole.

I don't get pissed at you bro, I think some senstivity training would benifit you. That's all. I mean it's just like I dunno you come at me with a more demanding type air then one of curiosity. Curiosity I can deal with,questions I can deal with, just yer delivery of said questions leaves alot be desired.But this is just my experience with you. Tact. You lack tact is all. But what do you exspect from an presidential assasin.

Yeah, sorry Roxy. I just have one more thing to say to you John, before we should just take this to the shoutbox or something; i'm pretty sure this is why you ran out of the Freedom of Speech thread with your tail between your legs:

yea i can see that. i can't afford sensitivity training though so i guess posting on this site is the closest i can get atm

@ ori

i'm gonna respond to you in the muslims thread cause i don't wanna derail roxy's thread further

Heh, i'm ready for round two. Let's do this!

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