Reasons you believe God/don't believe God?

Paul Smeenus · 02-07-2015, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xurtio

Probably not. I always like the historical Jesus tale too. Poor carpenter gets rich Jewish guys daughter pregnant. Big no no. Dad gets mad, comes up with immaculate conception to hide the embarrassment. Boom, Jesus.

None of that happened either.

/thread

~~Lord Larehip~~ · 02-07-2015, 01:36 PM

The astral origins of religion aren't hard to find. Judaism uses the Star of David, paganism uses the 5-pointed star, Islam uses a crescent moon and star, Christianity uses the cross--all astrological symbols.

In the Tendai sect of Japanese Buddhism, I found this:

The ideograms for MOUNTAIN and KING both reflect the syncretism of the Tendai tradition and the importance of the number three in Tendai traditions. The home of China’s Tientai (Jp. = Tendai) sect was on Mt. Tientai (天台山, literally “heavenly terraced mountain”). This name, moreover, is attributed to the mountain’s location below a three-star constellation north of the Big Dipper in Ursa Major. The three stars are known as the Three Terraces or Three Platforms (三台, Jp. = Sandai), and were considered a symbolic staircase connecting heaven to the earth.

Monkey Deities in Japanese Shinto Lore and Buddhist Art

Here is the Tendai emblem showing the three stars:

The Islam Ramadan is determined thusly:

Hilāl (the crescent) is typically a day (or more) after the astronomical new moon. Since the new moon marks the beginning of the new month, Muslims can usually safely estimate the beginning of Ramadan.[31] However, to many Muslims, this is not in accordance with authenticated Hadiths stating that visual confirmation per region is recommended. The consistent variations of a day have existed since the time of Muhammad.[32]

The holiday of Eid al-Fitr [(Arabic:عيد الفطر),(Bengali: ঈদুল ফিত্*র), "festivity of breaking the fast"] marks the end of Ramadan and the beginning of the next lunar month, Shawwal. This first day of the following month is declared after another crescent new moon has been sighted...

Ramadan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The all-seeing eye of Masonry is the sun and the Killing of Hiram Abiff ritual is a reenactment of the death of the sun during the winter months (and, yes, a mason friend of mine admitted as much).

The Hindu swastika is often called the "sun-wheel".

Here is an explanation of the menorah:

This Carthaginian menorah is not even Jewish. The bull represents the age of Taurus (just the Christian fish represents the age of Pisces) and the seven candles are the star group called the Pleiades which is in the shoulder of the bull:

The 12 labors of Hercules? Just a metaphor of the sun's journey through the zodiac (exact same thing as the story of Samson):

Esonet.com-Selected Esotericism Readings - The 12 Labors of Hercules and the Path of the Zodiac

Xurtio · 02-07-2015, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Smeenus

None of that happened either.

/thread

What are you, on contract? Will you go kill someone else's buzz?

**Frownland** · 02-07-2015, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xurtio

What are you, on contract? Will you go kill someone else's buzz?

Paul knows, he was there when it happened. Shroomin with Moses sounds like a good time, I'm jealous.

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 02-07-2015, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

If any formerly religious atheists get mad, I'll just call them butthurt. Any atheists who've never been religious who complain I'll just call Uncle Toms.

all the major god-haters that i can think of were never really religious. dawkins, hitchens, bill mahr, etc.

tbh though i prefer them (escpecially hitchens) to boring 'slacker atheists.' i even prefer religious zealots to that breed of atheist. all in all i i don't understand people who don't find religion interesting.

~~Lord Larehip~~ · 02-07-2015, 06:41 PM

Jesus never existed. Couldn't have. Paul wrote the earliest info about Jesus in his epistles which preceded the gospels substantially. In fact, Paul is supposed to be a contemporary of Jesus. Yet what does Paul tell us about the life of Jesus? Virtually nothing other than he laid in the grave three days. That's about it. Paul never says where Jesus walked nor when. So then the question becomes: Where did the gospel-writers get their information about the earthly life of Jesus if not from Paul?

The earliest gospel is Mark. Mark contains no birth story and no resurrection (until an appended version appeared which only proves how these documents were dishonestly revised over the centuries). Most of Mark appears in Matthew and Luke (these three are called "synoptic" which means "look the same") and yet where did they get their miraculous birth stories if not from Mark? Moreover, why is each birth story so different. Each even traces Jesus down through two different bloodlines and one is substantially shorter than the other.

As a creature of history, none of the writers and chroniclers of his time or the generation after seem to have heard of this miracle man. Many of the events mentioned in the gospels have no historical correspondences--no census decree issued by Augustus, no massacre of the innocents, no earth going dark at the moment of Jesus's death (except symbolically since he is the sun). Roman chroniclers living in Jerusalem at the very time Jesus supposedly entered the city make no mention of it much less mention of a trial and crucifixion.

Josephus served as governor of Galilee and wrote a history of the region going back 70 years which would have covered the time Jesus lived and yet never mentioned him. Third century Church Father Origen, who grew up in that area tried to verify the Jesus story and could not. He could find no evidence that Nazareth even existed before the 2nd century.

Many of the cities mentioned in the gospels, such as Dalmatia, do not exist. They are completely fictional. This indicates the Gospels were written for people OUTSIDE of Palestine, people who lived in the Diaspora and who did not speak Aramaic much less Hebrew.

The story is made up and nothing more.

The Batlord · 02-07-2015, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth

all the major god-haters that i can think of were never really religious. dawkins, hitchens, bill mahr, etc.

tbh though i prefer them (escpecially hitchens) to boring 'slacker atheists.' i even prefer religious zealots to that breed of atheist. all in all i i don't understand people who don't find religion interesting.

I find religion interesting, I just don't feel the need to spend so much of my time bitching about it and making sure my logical arguments against it will meet Aristotle's approval. After spending as much time on atheist forums as I have, I really don't care about having the same debates over and over again.

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 02-07-2015, 07:14 PM

i agree, people who bitch too much about it are annoying. i don't complain about religion, really. i don't mind it. i'm not even sold on the idea that society would be better off without it. i might make fun of it... but that hopefully isn't taken to heart

as for the logic part i mostly explore these types of questions on my own for my own sake because i find reality interesting. there was a time i went to forums for that sort of thing but since most people seem uninterested in that sort of thing now i just do it on my own.

@ larehip i disagree i think jesus existed and josephus did mention him. he is one of the main 'contemporary' (to jesus) historical sources that actually did mention jesus.

~~Lord Larehip~~ · 02-07-2015, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth

@ larehip i disagree i think jesus existed and josephus did mention him. he is one of the main 'contemporary' (to jesus) historical sources that actually did mention jesus.

Please quote the relevant passage.

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 02-07-2015, 07:48 PM

Quote:

About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.

Josephus' Account of Jesus: The Testimonium Flavianum

02-07-2015, 01:36 PM	#162 (permalink)
~~Lord Larehip~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 899	The astral origins of religion aren't hard to find. Judaism uses the Star of David, paganism uses the 5-pointed star, Islam uses a crescent moon and star, Christianity uses the cross--all astrological symbols. In the Tendai sect of Japanese Buddhism, I found this: The ideograms for MOUNTAIN and KING both reflect the syncretism of the Tendai tradition and the importance of the number three in Tendai traditions. The home of China’s Tientai (Jp. = Tendai) sect was on Mt. Tientai (天台山, literally “heavenly terraced mountain”). This name, moreover, is attributed to the mountain’s location below a three-star constellation north of the Big Dipper in Ursa Major. The three stars are known as the Three Terraces or Three Platforms (三台, Jp. = Sandai), and were considered a symbolic staircase connecting heaven to the earth. Monkey Deities in Japanese Shinto Lore and Buddhist Art Here is the Tendai emblem showing the three stars: The Islam Ramadan is determined thusly: Hilāl (the crescent) is typically a day (or more) after the astronomical new moon. Since the new moon marks the beginning of the new month, Muslims can usually safely estimate the beginning of Ramadan.[31] However, to many Muslims, this is not in accordance with authenticated Hadiths stating that visual confirmation per region is recommended. The consistent variations of a day have existed since the time of Muhammad.[32] The holiday of Eid al-Fitr [(Arabic:عيد الفطر),(Bengali: ঈদুল ফিত্*র), "festivity of breaking the fast"] marks the end of Ramadan and the beginning of the next lunar month, Shawwal. This first day of the following month is declared after another crescent new moon has been sighted... Ramadan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The all-seeing eye of Masonry is the sun and the Killing of Hiram Abiff ritual is a reenactment of the death of the sun during the winter months (and, yes, a mason friend of mine admitted as much). The Hindu swastika is often called the "sun-wheel". Here is an explanation of the menorah: This Carthaginian menorah is not even Jewish. The bull represents the age of Taurus (just the Christian fish represents the age of Pisces) and the seven candles are the star group called the Pleiades which is in the shoulder of the bull: The 12 labors of Hercules? Just a metaphor of the sun's journey through the zodiac (exact same thing as the story of Samson): Esonet.com-Selected Esotericism Readings - The 12 Labors of Hercules and the Path of the Zodiac

02-07-2015, 06:41 PM	#166 (permalink)
~~Lord Larehip~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 899	Jesus never existed. Couldn't have. Paul wrote the earliest info about Jesus in his epistles which preceded the gospels substantially. In fact, Paul is supposed to be a contemporary of Jesus. Yet what does Paul tell us about the life of Jesus? Virtually nothing other than he laid in the grave three days. That's about it. Paul never says where Jesus walked nor when. So then the question becomes: Where did the gospel-writers get their information about the earthly life of Jesus if not from Paul? The earliest gospel is Mark. Mark contains no birth story and no resurrection (until an appended version appeared which only proves how these documents were dishonestly revised over the centuries). Most of Mark appears in Matthew and Luke (these three are called "synoptic" which means "look the same") and yet where did they get their miraculous birth stories if not from Mark? Moreover, why is each birth story so different. Each even traces Jesus down through two different bloodlines and one is substantially shorter than the other. As a creature of history, none of the writers and chroniclers of his time or the generation after seem to have heard of this miracle man. Many of the events mentioned in the gospels have no historical correspondences--no census decree issued by Augustus, no massacre of the innocents, no earth going dark at the moment of Jesus's death (except symbolically since he is the sun). Roman chroniclers living in Jerusalem at the very time Jesus supposedly entered the city make no mention of it much less mention of a trial and crucifixion. Josephus served as governor of Galilee and wrote a history of the region going back 70 years which would have covered the time Jesus lived and yet never mentioned him. Third century Church Father Origen, who grew up in that area tried to verify the Jesus story and could not. He could find no evidence that Nazareth even existed before the 2nd century. Many of the cities mentioned in the gospels, such as Dalmatia, do not exist. They are completely fictional. This indicates the Gospels were written for people OUTSIDE of Palestine, people who lived in the Diaspora and who did not speak Aramaic much less Hebrew. The story is made up and nothing more.

02-07-2015, 07:14 PM	#168 (permalink)
~~John Wilkes Booth~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 2,235	i agree, people who bitch too much about it are annoying. i don't complain about religion, really. i don't mind it. i'm not even sold on the idea that society would be better off without it. i might make fun of it... but that hopefully isn't taken to heart as for the logic part i mostly explore these types of questions on my own for my own sake because i find reality interesting. there was a time i went to forums for that sort of thing but since most people seem uninterested in that sort of thing now i just do it on my own. @ larehip i disagree i think jesus existed and josephus did mention him. he is one of the main 'contemporary' (to jesus) historical sources that actually did mention jesus.