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View Poll Results: Do you like socialism? (explain reasons in thread)
Yes 16 61.54%
No 9 34.62%
I'm confused 1 3.85%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-18-2018, 09:05 PM   #131 (permalink)
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I've destroyed everything you've written. You even agree with me, and my examples. The comfort and success you enjoy couldn't exist without millions worldwide being in misery. It's easy to say that happiness is a state of mind, or that wealth isn't a gauge of who is a true winner, when you're not the one in the sweatshop.

You agree that our society needs people forced into wage slavery so that people like you can exist above it. And yet you think telling someone to grab their bootstraps (which were made by kids in China, btw) when the whole basis and stability of our economy is hedged on the fact that millions literally can't rise above poverty or else **** can't funcion, is bizarre.

The first part of dealing with a problem is to recognize that there is one. Whether I have an alternative or not is irrelevent.
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:13 PM   #132 (permalink)
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But instead of you halfheatedly trying to wave away all of those pesky parts of my posts where I disproved your weird bootstrap fallacy because "wah, but you didn't answer some vague query I half posited, therefore nah to everything", how about we let the audience decide?
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:16 PM   #133 (permalink)
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If I agree with you than I guess you destroyed yourself.

Actually it is relevant. If you recognize the world is shit and make no effort to do anything about it than your part of the problem. I dont feel bad for being born into a first world country. It's the reality we face. Making myself homeless to suffer as others do and not achieving anything puts me in a lesser position to help those around me and create a local net positive.

Poll the audience.. a drunk Batlord who's an intelligent dude wasting his BK money on Steel Reserve when he has the luxury of living at home instead of going to school to get a better job to help out his moms.. and Elph who gives a whole lotta fucks about people and the world, but tends to ignore the reality in which he faces to strive for an unrealistic utopia. Bravo.

Good night
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:18 PM   #134 (permalink)
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Nighty night
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:22 PM   #135 (permalink)
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Please point out where I said that I'm not trying to change the world in my own way, and where I recommended that you make yourself homeless.

Unless, of course, you just assumed that's how I feel.

Btw, please don't give up your home, living in New Jersey is more than enough suffering for you.
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:25 PM   #136 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls View Post
Poll the audience.. a drunk Batlord who's an intelligent dude wasting his BK money on Steel Reserve when he has the luxury of living at home instead of going to school to get a better job to help out his moms.. and Elph who gives a whole lotta fucks about people and the world, but tends to ignore the reality in which he faces to strive for an unrealistic utopia. Bravo.
Why do you jeer at them? You should love them. Without their minimum wage work, you'd have nothing.
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:25 PM   #137 (permalink)
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nighty night
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:29 PM   #138 (permalink)
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And how do you suppose we do that? I say expect more from ourselves and each other, you say "meh, I'm stuck"...

OH can rip me all he wants for appreciating the 3rd grade poster quote about being the change you want to see, but as far as I can tell it is the single best option to change the world and society. Idc, how much I get **** on for it, I'm not going to give up, and I don't care if I never get to witness it or if it never happens. I'm trying and not making excuses. You think I want to not eat delicious animals? No, but it's what I believe is right and I'm working towards it, and I approach ever facet of life this way.

FTR, I don't even disagree with Elph. I know very little about the kind of work environments he's talking about. I just felt like throwing a little jab at you.
How do we change things? Well we certainly don't do it by incrementally changing human thought patterns when the power structures which have for thousands of years depended on a subservient class are still in power without any incentive to allow that change. Eventually those structures will have to be decisively challenged. Not compromising your principles is neither commendable or worthwhile when you're simply pissing in the wind, and I think you know this and are washing your hands of the whole affair to live your life for yourself while throwing up fake solutions so that you don't have to admit that you've given up on the human race. In your own way your ideas are as insipid as elph's tbh.

As to what my solution would be? She-it there probably isn't one and it only makes sense to wash your hands of the whole thing and either consciously become a parasite who exploits his fellow man cause TVs and cars are more fulfilling than the rest of these dunces, or opt out of civilization either physically by living in a cabin off the grid or a small scale co-operative society growing tomatoes and weed, or opt out mentally (like yourself I imagine, or me) and just live your life for your own personal fulfillment while trying to hurt as few people as possible. I think this is perfectly reasonable, just be honest about it.

But if we're really gonna try then I imagine we have to wait for society to deteriorate to an extent where the populace reaches a breaking point and forces the powers that be to make radical changes through daffy, relatively benevolent elites such as existed during the Enlightenment who actually give a **** about something other than maintaining power, and hope you get Jefferson rather than Robespierre. I certainly don't think that the populace is going to be the architect of a changing society though, for the same reasons I don't think your principles make sense.

I doubt we'll get that though, and societal deterioration either won't be great enough to produce meaningful change or society will deteriorate too much and we'll get bulldozed by megalomaniacal psychopaths like Mao and Robespierre.

Best case scenario afaic is to wait for Human+ to finally happen so human consciousness can be forcefully changed so that all of humanity can be made into something capable of governing themselves without relying on depressing monarchs and oligarchs, and of course hope that the elites don't hoard the science and essentially create two human sub-species. Which is likely. Or maybe our best hope is AI taking the conceptual side of governance out of our hands so we can have good ideas spoonfed to us until we stop sucking.

But by all means keep clicking your heels.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:00 PM   #139 (permalink)
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I'm pretty sure I've thrown the human race under the bus for being idiots who allow for their own oppression and will likely destroy themselves in some way or another on any number of occasions, but just saying that people should be accountable for their actions is limiting. We've existed for thousands of years in this state of elites exploiting the weak while the weak simply say, "Well that's just how things work, God save the Queen," and no amount of just telling people to do better is going to convince them to. It would have happened already.

You need to change the way that humans interact with and relate to the power structures in their lives and to do that you need to change the power structures first. Power structures are stimuli that cause the populace to react in certain ways, and to keep them static or to alter them in ways that keep the mentality of the old structures will simply result in the same reactions from the populace. This is why capitalism doesn't work as a stimuli for social mobility. It encourages the same stratified concepts of social status that existed in centuries past while paying lip service to opportunity, which is why all those lazy, stupid people stay lazy and stupid.
*stimulus
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:00 PM   #140 (permalink)
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*its
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