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View Poll Results: Do you like socialism? (explain reasons in thread)
Yes 16 61.54%
No 9 34.62%
I'm confused 1 3.85%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-19-2018, 07:41 PM   #161 (permalink)
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Itís hard for people to believe the poor donít deserve to be **** on because that idea challenges the notion that rich people deserve what they get as well.
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There's probably some reasonable middle ground between Leave It to Beaver and being forced to suck your step-father's dick in the basement after your mom goes to work.
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:42 PM   #162 (permalink)
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I've expressed what I believe to be the answer but I also don't think it's necessary that you have an answer to say "damn this is p bull**** you know"

it'll make you feel a lot better than a self-help book too, that's just a bonus
You don't have to have an answer.. but if it doesn't lead to something constructive it's not worth the stress, aggravation, or time. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Also, see my previous edit.
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:43 PM   #163 (permalink)
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Itís hard for people to believe the poor donít deserve to be **** on because that idea challenges the notion that rich people deserve what they get as well.
Some do some don't on both ends of the spectrum, but if you say it about the rich youre scum to the SJWs and if you say it about the poor youre a socialist.
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:46 PM   #164 (permalink)
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It’s hard for people to believe the poor don’t deserve to be **** on because that idea challenges the notion that rich people deserve what they get as well.
which challenges the notion that you deserve what you have

people really don't like that

they'd rather believe that Bezos deserves billions than consider that the difference between them and the guy they gave a fiver to outside the gas station is not one of character
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:46 PM   #165 (permalink)
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Some do some don't on both ends of the spectrum, but if you say it about the rich youre scum to the SJWs and if you say it about the poor youre a socialist.
No one deserves to be poor.
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There's probably some reasonable middle ground between Leave It to Beaver and being forced to suck your step-father's dick in the basement after your mom goes to work.
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:47 PM   #166 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by elphenor View Post
which challenges the notion that you deserve what you have

people really don't like that

they'd rather believe that Bezos deserves billions than consider that the difference between them and the guy they gave a fiver to outside the gas station is not one of character
Church
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There's probably some reasonable middle ground between Leave It to Beaver and being forced to suck your step-father's dick in the basement after your mom goes to work.
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:49 PM   #167 (permalink)
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Heroin junkies that steal from their friends/family, don't work, and fuck society deserve to be poor unless by some circumstance they are not the reason they are addicts. You can only help someone so many times...
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:04 PM   #168 (permalink)
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Heroin junkies that steal from their friends/family, don't work, and fuck society deserve to be poor unless by some circumstance they are not the reason they are addicts. You can only help someone so many times...
I try to keep away from even recovering (or recovered or whatever) junkies because Iíve had so many bad experiences

but

they shouldnít be abandoned to suffer any more than cancer patients
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There's probably some reasonable middle ground between Leave It to Beaver and being forced to suck your step-father's dick in the basement after your mom goes to work.
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:09 PM   #169 (permalink)
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Here's how I look at it.. deserve is kind of a tricky word because I don't think "hey you junkie, you should be poor because youre scum", I think "hey you made some really bad decisions and dont give a **** about anyone so you deserve to suffer the consequences of your actions".

Also, I assume we agree that all people are equal (generally speaking). Why do you think it's justified to prop up one unrelentingly negligent person who doesnt care at the cost of damaging multiple people who are equals? Why is their betterment more valuable than the multiple people they are harming?

The difference between the junkie and the cancer patient is that the cancer patient isn't actively causing intentional harms to others and themselves.

Edit: and likewise, 20+ people I know and went to school with have died from ODs since highschool (my entire highschool was only 400 kids).
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:45 PM   #170 (permalink)
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That'd be a cool argument if there wasn't 1000+ years of human progress that coincided with a change in thought.. Human history has never changed by incentivizing the powerful few, it changed from the hard work of the subservient class, but you'd rather bitch than do the work. Like most people, you're stuck in the mindset of wanting a bandaid fix instead of a long term solution.
The subservient few do not change society, they build and maintain the infrastructure. Do you think it was the poor who developed democracy in Athens or do you think it was daffy elites who had the leisure to engage in intellectual pursuits such as experimental politics because they didn't have to sweat their balls off just to survive? Do you think it was the poor who were responsible for the Enlightenment that developed into modern, democratic, Western culture, or was it elites like John Locke and Thomas Jefferson? The poor are too busy worrying about being able to feed themselves and their families. But they also provide the opportunity for those elites to masturbate things like the social contract and democracy and capitalism while never truly benefiting from those ideas the same as the elites.

And as much progress has been created by those elites they've never managed or just been truly committed to dissolving those power structures that have created such inequalities. Our politicians and capitalists are still aristocrats and our poor are still peasants, just with different terms to describe them. The poor will never save themselves and the elites will never save them either.

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The difference between the junkie and the cancer patient is that the cancer patient isn't actively causing intentional harms to others and themselves.
The difference between junkies and cancer patients is that the disease junkies suffer from does not make them sympathetic. Both have diseases that destroy them but the junkie's disease is one of the mind that is hard to conceptualize. I don't like associating with junkies either since my experience with them is that they are toxic to everyone they know, but that doesn't mean that they don't have a debilitating disease worthy of sympathy, no matter how galling it is to give them that sympathy.
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