Why do people get annoyed at people who care about minority social issues?

RoxyRollah · 04-29-2015, 08:17 PM

And I can dig that, fighting the power from within is the only effective way to dismantle the machine. (Imo) But the issue is black folks appear to need a voice, like they had with Dr. King. A voice the encourages them in more positive ways.

**Janszoon** · 04-29-2015, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoxyRollah

And I can dig that, fighting the power from within is the only effective way to dismantle the machine. (Imo) But the issue is black folks appear to need a voice, like they had with Dr. King. A voice the encourages them in more positive ways.

Part of my point is that there are now a greater diversity of voices, and they're encouraging in very tangible ways. For instance, by being an example of how being focused and working hard can put you in a position to truly enact change as the mayor of a major American city.

~~Soulflower~~ · 04-29-2015, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Part of my point is that there are now a greater diversity of voices, and they're encouraging in very tangible ways. For instance, by being an example of how being focused and working hard can put you in a position to truly enact change as the mayor of a major American city.

But that does not make that mayor a leader in the face of civil rights for black people.

Being an example is not enough.

We need someone as the face of the movement who not only discusses the problems and issues that the black community faces but also actively bring about change through peaceful organized protests, programs, lecturing the black youth about their history, problems they might have, educating certain communities etc. We need some structured guidance and organization for when these types of civil rights issues arises.

Part of the reason why the youth riots and loots is because they don't know how to respond to racism because they don't know their history. If they knew their history about what MLK did and stood for they would not be doing that.

**Janszoon** · 04-29-2015, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

I disagree

We do not have any black leaders the same as in the past.

Just because an African American is in a high position does not automatically make them a black leader. (yes they might have the platform to bring about change but that doesn't necessarily mean they are risking their life to protest the civil rights for black people)

We don't have that today.

We don't have Malcom X's or MLK's who risk there life to push for civil rights and equality for black people. They weren't looking for trophies or to be on t.v. They worked in the communities, organized protests, taught the youth about their history, implemented spirituality/church in their practices.

We don't have that today.

The black youth today look towards the wrong people for guidance which is the problem. They look towards people like Beyonce and Jay Z when Beyonce and Jay Z could give a damn if they got shot in the street today or tomorrow.

Of course the leaders today aren't the same as the past. That's my whole point. Times are different now and they call for different kinds of leaders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

Actually you are wrong, racism is actually more implicit and institutionalized now. Its not as overt and explicit like it was in the past.

Yes, it's less overt. That's what "less blatant" means. And no, it's not more institutionalized now than when there were literally laws that actively discriminated against people based on the color of their skin. When I refer to institutional racism, I'm referring to racism that was enshrined in the rules and regulations of the governing institutions. Things are no longer that like that, but as we both agree, racism still persists in less overt ways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

But that does not make that mayor a leader in the face of civil rights for black people.

Being an example is not enough.

I didn't say it was. What I'm saying is that, in additional to being a great role model, a person like Stephanie Rawlings-Blake actually has legal power over the police and other city institutions, something no civil rights leader back in the 60s ever had.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

We need someone as the face of the movement who not only discusses the problems and issues that the black community faces but also actively bring about change through peaceful organized protests, programs, lecturing the black youth about their history, problems they might have, educating certain communities etc. We need some structured guidance and organization for when these types of civil rights issues arises.

Part of the reason why the youth riots and loots is because they don't know how to respond to racism because they don't know their history. If they knew their history about what MLK did and stood for they would not be doing that.

You know that "the youth" also rioted back in the 60s, right?

~~Soulflower~~ · 04-29-2015, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Of course the leaders today aren't the same as the past. That's my whole point. Times are different now and they call for different kinds of leaders.

But that's the thing.... times are not different because we can clearly see that the same issues that took place in the 60's still are going on today.

Racism and social issues that revolve around how institutions, corporations, law enforcement, politics etc confront this issue is still the same.

The problem with today's so called leaders it that, we don't have any real leaders that really want to change the community for the better. Most of these so called leaders just care about money and status.

There is no reason why there cant be leaders willing to risk their life and fight for the civil rights of black people like leaders did during the 60's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Yes, it's less overt. That's what "less blatant" means.

But you implied that it is not as institutionalized and the opposite of institutionalized racism is overt racism and if that is not what you meant than you could have clarified that point better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

And no, it's not more institutionalized now

You are wrong.

It is more institutionalized now compared to the past. In the past, most of the racism was expressed explicitly through hangings, shootings, harassment and other forms of physical aggression.

Institutionalized racism does not only specifically consists of laws. It consists of the way jobs are created, classism, socioeconomic status, implicit forms of racism, i.e. standardized testing (biased testing implemented to weed out minorities who lack education on certain areas), job discrimination (i.e. picking a white person over a black person who is equally qualified) those types of issues reflect in institutionalized racism which is why those things are implemented. They keep minorities in the low socioeconomic class although it is not overtly expressed like it once was.

It is more institutionalized now because there is no longer segregation so they weed out minorities in a different way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I didn't say it was. What I'm saying is that, in additional to being a great role model, a person like Stephanie Rawlings-Blake actually has legal power over the police and other city institutions, something no civil rights leader back in the 60s ever had.

You gave more importance over "being an example" as the the resolution and if that is not what you meant you definitely implied it. But yes in conjuction to being a good role model, there needs to be someone actively make changes in the community.

Also, while I agree there are more minorities in policy compared to the 60's, there are still not an abundance of minorities in political positions. That is still an area that minority presence is still lacking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

You know that "the youth" also rioted back in the 60s, right?

If you read my first few posts I said that black youth rioted during the 60's as well. That point has already been made.

However, in today's generation, there are no black leaders to step in to re-direct the youth and guide them when these racial issues arise.

DwnWthVwls · 04-29-2015, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

But that's the thing.... times are not different because we can clearly see that the same issues that took place in the 60's still are going on today.

Seriously? I don't even know how to respond.

**Janszoon** · 04-29-2015, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

But that's the thing.... times are not different because we can clearly see that the same issues that took place in the 60's still are going on today.

Racism and social issues that revolve around how institutions, corporations, law enforcement, politics etc confront this issue is still the same.

The problem with today's so called leaders it that, we don't have any real leaders that really want to change the community for the better. Most of these so called leaders just care about money and status.

There is no reason why there cant be leaders willing to risk their life and fight for the civil rights of black people like leaders did during the 60's.

But you implied that it is not as institutionalized and the opposite of institutionalized racism is overt racism and if that is not what you meant than you could have clarified that point better.

You are wrong.

It is more institutionalized now compared to the past. In the past, most of the racism was expressed explicitly through hangings, shootings, harassment and other forms of physical aggression.

Institutionalized racism does not only specifically consists of laws. It consists of the way jobs are created, classism, socioeconomic status, implicit forms of racism, i.e. standardized testing (biased testing implemented to weed out minorities who lack education on certain areas), job discrimination (i.e. picking a white person over a black person who is equally qualified) those types of issues reflect in institutionalized racism which is why those things are implemented. They keep minorities in the low socioeconomic class although it is not overtly expressed like it once was.

It is more institutionalized now because there is no longer segregation so they weed out minorities in a different way.

You gave more importance over "being an example" as the the resolution and if that is not what you meant you definitely implied it. But yes in conjuction to being a good role model, there needs to be someone actively make changes in the community.

Also, while I agree there are more minorities in policy compared to the 60's, there are still not an abundance of minorities in political positions. That is still an area that minority presence is still lacking.

If you read my first few posts I said that black youth rioted during the 60's as well. That point has already been made.

However, in today's generation, there are no black leaders to step in to re-direct the youth and guide them when these racial issues arise.

You know what? Forget it. It's obvious you're not even bothering to read anything I write so there's no point even having a conversation.

YorkeDaddy · 04-29-2015, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

You know what? Forget it. It's obvious you're not even bothering to read anything I write so there's no point even having a conversation.

Soulflower not reading what people are saying and ranting about the same things over and over as if her views are the only possibly valid ones?!

Shocking development, no one and I mean no one could've seen that coming out of her

~~Soulflower~~ · 04-29-2015, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

You know what? Forget it. It's obvious you're not even bothering to read anything I write so there's no point even having a conversation.

I read everything you wrote and gave detailed explanations for why I disagreed.

Your getting mad because I disagreed.

~~Soulflower~~ · 04-29-2015, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoxyRollah

And I can dig that, fighting the power from within is the only effective way to dismantle the machine. (Imo) But the issue is black folks appear to need a voice, like they had with Dr. King. A voice the encourages them in more positive ways.

Well said.

That is the main issue. They need someone that will teach them how to respond when these racial issues come up.

"No rioting is not the right way, lets try this...."

Also,

They just need someone that they can vent to and talk about their frustrations with. Young black men are constantly profiled all the time and they have a lot of anger and resentment towards law enforcement as a result. MLK did a lot of group discussions in youth groups about these issues. I think a potential leader could address similar things.

"How does it make you feel when you are stopped by a cop? Lets talk about it instead of rioting"