confederate flag debate
 

ok people so let's try to deal with this one civilly shall we?

you all know the story

here's a quick recap so we're all on the same page

so let's get a few things out of the way here

first, i'd like to say there are a lot of emotions and tensions on both sides, and i think people should try to imagine a little bit where both sides are coming from, instead of letting ourselves devolve into mindless tribalism like the media campaigns would have us do.

black people/liberals are not offended for no reason, the flag has a clear connection to slavery, racism and all of that so in their eyes it is a symbol of hate so they are understandably upset when they see people seemingly defending it

at the same time, while some might be genuine racists, and surely there is still plenty of racism in the south, i think by and large a lot of the people who like/defend the flag really do just see it as a cultural symbol of the south. i don't think they're defending it just to be antagonistic to black people... they perceive their own culture as being under attack, a narrative which is reinforced to them by right wing media

i frankly think the flag defenders are misguided in regard to the flag's history... and in regard to the south's history in general. i have had people tell me with a straight face the civil war wasn't really about slavery. it's the common wisdom here. i guess they don't like thinking of their ancestors as the bad guys, so they latch on to an alternative narrative that to them is more appealing.

whether or not that's justifiable, i think the current campaign to demonize the flag and the heritage of the south, while maybe historically sound, is also bound to be divisive and will add the the narrative of southern victimhood in the minds of the flag's defenders, while their defense of the flag will add to the narrative of black victimhood in the minds of everyone else, and the wounds created by this kid's random act of violence and the following media campaigns will just continue to fester, as people on both sides are increasingly alienated from one another

with all of that said, there is perhaps another perspective to take on this issue. a third perspective if you will. a middle ground that seeks compromise and reconciliation as opposed to increased antagonism.

first, let's approach the flag question from a purely aesthetic pov. flags are ultimately just symbols.. designed to invoke feelings of nationalism and camaraderie, and sort of arbitarily assigned through the circumstances of history to one particular cause or another. thus it is a simple matter of historical circumstance that the american flag is this

http://leftwingnation.rocks/wp-conte...can-flag-1.jpg

while the conferate flag is this

https://cbsdallas.files.wordpress.co...&h=349&crop=1g

and so when we look at these two flags, and approach the issue from an aesthetic pov, clearly the confederate flag is the better flag

i mean to me, anyway. you can try to defend the american flag if you like, but i don't see how you could possibly think it looks better

the confederate flag is more symmetrical, better designed, more emotionally evocative.. it has a big X right down the middle like d-generation X, but with stars and ****, bright nationalist colors, sort of like a more american and in-your-face version of the union jack

so we could just try to get rid of it and use tough love to try to convince southerners not to like it either, but i doubt if that will work

i mean these people grew up watching this:



so they're gonna keep liking this flag guys. it just is what it is. all the john stewarts in the world aint gonna change that.

so maybe we should use this whole issue to bring the two sides together under one flag. yes the civil war happened and only one flag can stay. the south/confederacy lost the war. so the country is still called the united states, and not the confederacy. but maybe we just steal their flag, as a sort of spoils of war? and so this can just be called the american flag:

https://cbsdallas.files.wordpress.co...0&h=349&crop=1

not the confederate flag, not the rebel falg, not the flag of the south, but the american flag. and the other flag can go away

i know all the betsy ross fans will be disappointed, but it's like hey betsy, you tried your best. it's ok. that flag worked for a while, but we found a better one. really we don't need to keep it if you think about it. flags can change. and ours is really awkward looking. i doubt whoever came up with the whole 1 star = 1 state idea didn't think we'd be getting 50 states. now we don't even want to let peurto rico or any of the other territories possibly become a state cause we're just tired of updating the flag

i say **** that ****. take the better flag. why should we settle? why should we let a bunch of dead slave owners dictate which flag belongs to who?

so that's my stance on the whole flag issue

The last half of the OP was brilliant. The Dukes of Hazzard clip was just inspired.

This reminds me... I need a new leather jacket.

:beer:i'd just like to say i coudn't have done this without all my fan

And what a fan it is...

http://lifeelectronics.net/wp-conten...destal-fan.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...4d778e0065.jpg

oh ****.

that was a "Dad Joke" wasn't it

not sure whether to resent you more for hating on my thread or being 20-something and referencing happy days

You're right. How dare I know about things from before my time. Next thing you know, I'll be a twenty something referencing the Dukes of Hazzard...

He's got you there, Jay Dubya.

not really... i was giving a history lesson, i wouldn't use dukes of hazzard terms in an ordinary conversation

never even seen an episode of that show tbh

but yean i wasn't necessarily just picking on you for liking **** from the past... it's just that you pick **** like happy days

I think it was more the "Jumping The Shark" message. Which fits this thread perfectly. It's so edgy. Do you ever come here to talk about music?

yea i got the joke old man.. but i reject the message

because you guys just think i'm trying to be edgy.. that's the same **** they say every time i make a thread

where as i'm just being open minded and trying to find a way to approach this topic in a peaceful way. i feel like i was pretty fair/non-inflammatory about it

but just cause i didnt conclude with **** THE CONFEDERACY

im trying to be edgy

you people are stuck in the matrix.

You do realize this is a Music forum, right?

so we're supposed to be talking about music in the current events section then plankton?

It's just that I've never come across a thread or post from you that involves discussion on something musically oriented. You seem to only make these "Hot Button" threads that are meant as some sort of baiting technique for your personal amusement. Also, you use the phrase "you people" quite a bit too, which tells me that you're fairly arrogant, and need to separate yourself from your perceived notion that everyone here except you is of lesser intelligence.

Why is that?

what's really funny to me is... i make these threads.. just in an attempt to engage people and maybe entertain them a little, or cause i think it's an idea worth thinking about for a second anyway

and inevitably i get a bunch of people actively resisting the thread topic by posting inane bull**** in it

instead of just not posting in it like i do when i don't care about a thread

dragging your feet acting like you're being forced to read it

really you need it

you need my JWB wisdom and you hate yourself for it so you're in denial about it

so you give me **** about it

i have done stuff in the hip hop section... but yea mostly i don't post about music you're right

i learned to use the phrase "you people" in propaganda school

but i don't rank everyone as less intelligent as me, i just post in a combative way

as many of you do

and most of you are arrogant in your own ways as well

i just dress it up less than you

I didn't know there was a "debate" about this

It's a bunch of morons doing what they do best: being morons

i actuallly think the confed flag looks like shit tho

Far more non-whites were murdered by soldiers marching under the US flag than the Confederate flag.

To be fair, the U.S. flag has had a much longer run.

I'm horrified by both flags but at least with the Confederate I take comfort in that it seems to really have fallen out of vogue with practically everyone. Let's hope the same thing happens to the US flag very soon.

do you honestly think the american flag is better looking?

I'll bring the matches, brother.

i dont love it either but yes. would rather have the stripes than the obnoxious "X"

nah you have **** taste in flags

It's like, we get it, you're a raver. No need to brag about it.

I'd like to interview all the pro-confederate flag people and see if they think the swastika should be allowed to fly freely. It's a similar issue.

For the record, I think most flags are pretty lame; both of ours included.

Edit: Just googled em, they are all ugly.

if you're being honest you have to say the nazi flag looks pretty amazing

Swastikas are just a cool design, regardless of the connotations. I'm no commie but I think that the hammer and sickle are pretty badass too.

swastikas are cool looking, and also fascists were just good at symbolism and propaganda... as were communists

http://www.gatling-gun.com/images/Re...ce_Flag_ee.jpg
http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/13...ussia-USSR.gif
http://img11.deviantart.net/4409/i/2...y_cow41087.jpg

Google images, lol.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...8e2e539349.jpg

swastikas and hammer+sickle are wayy better looking than the confed one.

i agree.. i didn't say the confed flag is the best flag... but it's easily better than the american flag

Who the **** cares what flags look like?

O_o

good post

Welsh flag FTW.


https://theresagreen.files.wordpress...elsh_flag1.png

So many awful things I don't know where to begin.

It's a ****ing dragon, you *******. Anyone who doesn't think that dragon's kick ass can suck my dick. Also, shout out to Bhutan.


http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/201201/01...7_20273287.jpg