Brexit? Yay or Nay.

K Addict · 10-28-2019, 04:40 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP0fy4vD4oM

Liar

~~Cuthbert~~ · 10-28-2019, 08:47 AM

3 month extension granted, haha

Lisnaholic · 10-28-2019, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggywas

yeah its an old tradition in Europe/EU to tumble referendums.
in most of the cases you have to vote again (ireland, france,.....)
In Greece we had a lot of fun voting 60% no to fiscal measures while in full pressure mode (eu officials and the media talkin armageddon, banks were closed then having capital controls and ques in front of the atm machines etc) and then overnight we ended up doing the exact opppossite of what was voted.
they didnt even give us a chance to change our minds.

^ I didn't realise that you were from Greece, ziggywas. Yes, your country has suffered terribly because of the EU financial stance of One Policy Fits All. That's probably the only logical way to operate the common-currency euro, but it was disastrous for Greece.

The UK at least kept out of the euro and has always operated its own currency, so compared to other EU countries, we were already getting the best of both worlds by staying in the EU. That's what's galling to me: in the EU we were an important member who could demand special-case treatment. The minute we said we were leaving, our voice counted for nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluff

3 month extension granted, haha

^ Yes, Boris Johnson has egg on his face, but an extension is only temporary: a long way to go for a Remain victory.

Lisnaholic · 10-28-2019, 06:33 PM

How much does bad government cost? I'm thinking about the public money that is spent on implementing various policies.

This, for example, is just the advertising costs relating to Johnson's hubris in declaring a 31 Oct Brexit date:-

Quote:

The government says it has paused its campaign urging the public and businesses to Get Ready for Brexit on 31 October. It comes after Prime Minister Boris Johnson accepted the EU's offer to extend the Brexit deadline to 31 January.

The Brexit advertising blitz across social media, billboards and TV is reported to have cost £100m.

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn called it "£100m of misspent public money".

"How many nurses could have been hired, how many parcels could have been funded at food banks, how many social care packages could have been funded for our elderly?," Mr Corbyn asked MPs.

Of course this is just one small bit of what the government has spent on the Brexit fiasco to date.

Because it happened in the 1990s, it's not mentioned much anymore, but one of the biggest-ever wastes of public money was over Mrs.Thatcher's Poll Tax. She had hit on the idea of meddling with local council taxes - the kind pay for street lighting and firemen. She pushed through a bunch of changes that were so unpopular that it cost her the next election. In fact, her Poll Tax was so unpopular that within three years things were changed back to the way they had previously been.

Quote:

"It's worth remembering that when the poll tax was eventually replaced by the council tax,[=back to the old system] it cost about £6bn in money of the day - an enormous amount.

So that was at least £12bn to change an adequate, accepted tax system for three years, then change it back again.

To me, there's a clear message to all politicians: if it ain't broken, don't fix it. Sadly, it's a lesson very few politicians are humble enough to learn.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 10-29-2019, 12:37 PM

General Election all but confirmed, Labour now backing it. We will know in about an hour what the date is. 9th or 12th December.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 10-29-2019, 02:28 PM

Confirmed 12th December, General Election 2019.

Brenda from Bristol isn't going to be happy.

Lisnaholic · 10-30-2019, 07:12 AM

^

You're right! And I'm sure poor Brenda won't be the only person in dismay!
__________________________________________________ __________________________

Where do the parties stand on Brexit?

Before all the claims and counter claims of electioneering begin to kick in, I though this article from the BBC might be worth sharing. It explains how things are today: how all the parties stand on the Brexit issue, and how many MPs they currently have in parliament. I've edited it down a little, but it still needs a spoiler:-

Spoiler for Position of parties on Brexit:

~~Cuthbert~~ · 10-30-2019, 04:39 PM

There was a story on the news just about MPs resigning because of abuse they receive. Anyway another one has gone. It is getting out of hand. I see Corbyn get a fair amount on Twitter as well. Its very vicious at the moment with no end in sight.

The Batlord · 10-30-2019, 04:46 PM

Still confident in a bad end for England.

Lisnaholic · 10-31-2019, 05:52 AM

^ I can't really dispute that prediction but I don't understand the picture. The constelation of The Plough with a sword? It's as cryptic as one of Plankton's numbers in the 1-2-3 Fun thread.

10-28-2019, 04:40 AM	#1051 (permalink)
K Addict Send Help Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Cwm yng Nghymru Posts: 1,261	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP0fy4vD4oM Liar __________________ "Girl Group, K-Pop Supremacist"

10-30-2019, 07:12 AM	#1057 (permalink)
Lisnaholic ...here to hear... Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: He lives on Love Street Posts: 4,444	^ You're right! And I'm sure poor Brenda won't be the only person in dismay! __________________________________________________ __________________________ Where do the parties stand on Brexit? Before all the claims and counter claims of electioneering begin to kick in, I though this article from the BBC might be worth sharing. It explains how things are today: how all the parties stand on the Brexit issue, and how many MPs they currently have in parliament. I've edited it down a little, but it still needs a spoiler:- Spoiler for Position of parties on Brexit: Conservatives - 298 MPs Prime Minister Boris Johnson wants the UK to leave the EU with the revised deal he agreed: a revision of the deal previously negotiated by Theresa May, it includes scrapping the controversial Irish backstop and replacing it with a new customs arrangement. But Brexit left the Conservative Party heavily divided, with 21 MPs expelled recently for failing to follow the government's line on Brexit. Ten have since been welcomed back. Labour - 244 MPs If it wins an election, Labour wants to renegotiate Mr Johnson's Brexit deal and put it to another public vote. Labour says its referendum would be a choice between a "credible" Leave option versus Remain. Under its Leave option, Labour says it will negotiate for the UK to remain in an EU customs union, and retain a "close" single market relationship. This would allow the UK to continue trading with the EU without checks, but it would prevent it from striking its own trade deals with other countries. Senior figures, including shadow chancellor John McDonnell and shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry, have said they favour remaining in the EU. [Although Corbyn, in an absolute masterstroke of leadership, won't tell anyone which option he would favour afaik] Just like the Conservatives, Labour has had to deal with internal divisions over its Brexit policy. More than 25 Labour MPs wrote to Mr Corbyn in June, saying another public vote would be "toxic to our bedrock Labour voters". SNP - 35 MPs The SNP is pro-Remain and wants the UK to stay a member of the EU. It has been campaigning for another referendum on Brexit. Scotland's First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, said the possibility of a no-deal Brexit is "catastrophic" The SNP's ultimate objective is for an independent Scotland that is a full member of the EU. Liberal Democrats - 19 MPs The Liberal Democrats have pledged to cancel Brexit if they win power at the next general election. If the Lib Dems do not win a majority at the election they would support another referendum. Democratic Unionist Party - 10 MPs The DUP had an agreement with the Conservatives whereby it lent it support in the Commons. However, while the DUP wants the UK to leave the EU, it is unhappy with the revised deal negotiated by Mr Johnson. It's worried that the union between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK could be threatened, because Northern Ireland would have to stick to some EU rules and there would be checks on goods coming from Great Britain. The DUP wanted to be given a veto, so that it had the option to reject the new customs arrangement in the future. The Independent Group for Change - 5 MPs This party is made up of MPs who left the Conservatives and Labour, in part because of their positions on Brexit. They back another referendum, or "People's Vote", and want the UK to remain in the EU. Plaid Cymru - 4 MPs The party backs remaining in the EU, despite Wales voting "out" in the referendum. It wants a further referendum and to Remain. Green Party - 1 MP The party's one MP, Caroline Lucas, has been a vocal campaigner for another referendum, and believes the UK should stay in the EU. Brexit Party - 0 MPs The Brexit Party wants the UK to leave the EU without a deal, in what it calls a "clean-break Brexit". It says Mr Johnson's revised Brexit plan is a bad deal because it would still involve paying the EU a £39bn settlement. The Brexit Party says it would be willing to form an electoral pact with the Conservatives to try to avoid splitting the leave vote. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48027580 __________________ "Am I enjoying this moment? I know of it and perhaps that is enough." - Sybille Bedford, 1953

10-31-2019, 05:52 AM	#1060 (permalink)
Lisnaholic ...here to hear... Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: He lives on Love Street Posts: 4,444	^ I can't really dispute that prediction but I don't understand the picture. The constelation of The Plough with a sword? It's as cryptic as one of Plankton's numbers in the 1-2-3 Fun thread. __________________ "Am I enjoying this moment? I know of it and perhaps that is enough." - Sybille Bedford, 1953

10-28-2019, 08:47 AM	#1052 (permalink)
~~Cuthbert~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Black Country Posts: 8,827	3 month extension granted, haha

10-29-2019, 12:37 PM	#1055 (permalink)
~~Cuthbert~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Black Country Posts: 8,827	General Election all but confirmed, Labour now backing it. We will know in about an hour what the date is. 9th or 12th December.

10-29-2019, 02:28 PM	#1056 (permalink)
~~Cuthbert~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Black Country Posts: 8,827	Confirmed 12th December, General Election 2019. Brenda from Bristol isn't going to be happy.

10-30-2019, 04:39 PM	#1058 (permalink)
~~Cuthbert~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Black Country Posts: 8,827	There was a story on the news just about MPs resigning because of abuse they receive. Anyway another one has gone. It is getting out of hand. I see Corbyn get a fair amount on Twitter as well. Its very vicious at the moment with no end in sight.