https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13684

Creating an arguably unconstitutional task force is a good example

Could you explain further?

Basically, the grass is always greener and what you describe as limiting government is also simultaneously giving the government more powers.

Yeah, seems rather immoral to attempt to save people's lives.

At this point though, turning the government back into regulators would actually involve scaling back their powers.

It's not that the concept is immoral, it's that the execution and methods involved in collecting information to transmit to "law enforcement" is immoral.

:laughing: I didn't catch that executive order bit. When will people learn that calling something unconstitutional is not the same as calling it bad or saying that you disagree with it?

The methods of collecting information are unconstitutional and violate privacy laws, not to mention the immorality of it.

Could you elaborate?

You didn't catch the point I was asking him, though you just responded asking him to elaborate, which is what I asked him to do.

I think the point is that dirty liberal Obama signed it so it's bad.

To answer both of your questions; it allows local law enforcement to legally send statistics and personal details about an individual up to a federal level that would otherwise be locked under privacy laws, all in the name of "improving community relations."

I think you mean black.

So?

You really don't see an issue with the federal government just being able to pry anyone's information at a whim?

I didn't see that in the executive report. Which locked up statistics are we talking about here? Are these those infamous gun crime research papers?

I don't see how you're assuming they're going to do it to just anybody.

Not even related to gun crimes, just information in general. I understand that the Govt is always going to have access to things such as your birthday, nationality, physical characteristics, etc. With this though, they could arguably (which is lovingly left out of the EO), profile at a federal level based on information they're not even supposed to have.

It's not that they're going to, it's about the fact that they have the power to.

Also I'm not saying Obama's all bad (I enjoyed his speech on how we need to stop coddling college students for example), I'm just not happy with how certain things have turned out under his presidency.

Believe it or not, a lot of our personal information isn't as locked down tight as you'd like to think.

While that may be the case, at least if they access it and use the information against you, you have the ability in the court of law to say they obtained that information illegally and have their case thrown out. This EO arguably creates a loophole in that it's considered legal for this new task force to obtain information, and thus is technically unconstitutional and morally bankrupt (while masquerading as something that's supposed to be beneficial)

Are there factual examples of this causing any trouble for individuals?

I can't tell you off of the top of my head, I'd have to do more research. To my knowledge there haven't been any news making cases involving this, but that could be because something like this might not be newsworthy.

What kind of information would that be? I seriously can't think of anything that the government doesn't already have that would make any difference if they had it. I think you're reaching and I already told you I'm not one for alarmism.

The only thing I can see it being useful for is looking up case by case on a potential criminal etc. However, I won't dispute that the law enforcement has gotten a bit "trigger happy". Otherwise, I feel it's useful for people to ensure the wanted criminals they're following are actually wanted.

*remained

Good catch.

Maybe so; it just seems like a relatively big issue to me.

Isn't that what the FBI is for though? Why do we need yet an additional task force for something that another federal agency is supposed to be doing (in terms of keeping a database of certain things); I don't necessarily think law enforcement has gone trigger happy, I more or less think there's just much more media coverage of it.

Alarmism'll do that to ya.

Fair enough. But at the same time, you're under the assumption that the information they'd be sending is in any way a detriment to the person involved. They could literally just be getting their birth date as far as we know.

Information is power.

If that were the case, all websites that ask for your birth date should no longer do so.

Fear has given people infinity times more power than information.

Stuff like birthdays I don't care about the government having, everyone's forthcoming with that, and you need that for a drivers license anyways.

Precisely.

To your point though, what if that's all there getting on said persons is their birth date. Thus leading to the point that having that sort of power is no real threat.

This reminds me of the event that caused people to get scared about their email accounts because people thought the government was looking at everyone's individual emails which evidently was created out of fear and not knowing what the actual reason behind it was.

As Frown said, most of this stuff stems from fear, and not control itself.

Still waiting on what kind of information would be obtained that would have any negative effect on someone.

That's what I'm getting at. The only thing I can really think of that'd be a negative outcome would be your personal debit card number. Other than that, people can know whatever the **** they want to know about me.

Well that, and my SSN, but that should be obvious.

I'm relatively sure they would be able to access a person's SSN number

And...the government is going to commit large scale identity theft with it? Nevermind that social security is run by the government.

I wasn't necessarily mentioning SSN's for the argument, since it seems obvious that those are particularly safe as far as public information is concerned.

However, I still don't know how it'd be useful to them to know my SSN as it would only tell them what they already know.

I feel like I should be able to give you a wet willy for this after you made fun of me for living with my mother.

Come get me fatty.

Did your mom say you could come out and play?