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Old 01-23-2017, 10:18 AM   #1451 (permalink)
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Communists (not anarchists) and others were destroying things before, during and after the inauguration, and I was glad to see that the Women's Marches didn't result in the same violence. I wasn't expecting them to either. And whilst I have my own differences in opinion with those who attended the Women's March, I find it hard to complain about the events as a whole.

I'm fine with a border wall, though I don't really see how much difference it would make. If people wanna illegally enter the country, they will probably continue to do so in another way.

I disagree with a Muslim ban, although it doesn't look like it was a serious policy. Obviously you can't ban Muslims from entering the country because people can lie. But I don't see any harm in regulating immigration from the more radical Islamic countries.
Hmm, well the black clothing and black flags they were carrying are more associated with anarchist groups than communists (which tend to embrace red). Regardless, it was a tiny minority of people in the city. 230 or so arrested, one can guess about 5 times that number involved in illegal, destructive behavior, out of 500,000-1,000,000 people in the city in support or opposition to the new president. source 1 source 2

You've hit the nail on the head. A border wall is a essentially a symbolic gesture. Much like the 'America First' language used by the president, directly channeling fascist rhetoric used in here in the 20's and 30's, it sets a negative tone about our view of our own country, our distrust of others, and a desire for insularity (which runs counter to both conservatism and capitalism - two, former, pillars of the GOP). Instead of addressing actual immigration issues (which I don't have the space or inclination to get into right now), Trump has proposed an expensive, symbolic edifice that plays to the core prejudices of many of his supporters. This is candidate Trump. It shouldn't be President Trump, but we haven't seen much difference yet.

Glad to hear you're not supportive of religious tests to enter the country. I don't think you'll much push-back on the left if you support increased vetting for those traveling from war-torn countries. You certainly won't get any from me.

Common ground - it's a beautiful thing.
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:28 AM   #1452 (permalink)
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You're correct that Zucker should have never said this. All CNN needs to do is train their cameras on Trump and 6 months from now he'll have dug his own grave. The man is still in campaign mode. It's hard to keep talking about 'American carnage' when you're the man in the big chair. Americans have short attention spans; Obama was blamed for the 2008 financial collapse, even though it was the culmination of 8 years of Bush's policies.
1. Bush didn't help things by any means, but it was Bill Clinton who created the foundation for the 2008 financial collapse. Bush's biggest failing was that he didn't put anything in place to prevent things from turning out as they did.

2. His inauguration wasn't underattended: that's spin based on a photograph that was intentionally shot earlier in the day than the corresponding time to Obama's inauguration. Clever, but just proves yet again that the media don't check their sources well.
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:31 AM   #1453 (permalink)
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1. Bush didn't help things by any means, but it was Bill Clinton who created the foundation for the 2008 financial collapse. Bush's biggest failing was that he didn't put anything in place to prevent things from turning out as they did.
I'm pretty sure you mean Reagan, not Clinton.

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2. His inauguration wasn't underattended: that's spin based on a photograph that was intentionally shot earlier in the day than the corresponding time to Obama's inauguration. Clever, but just proves yet again that the media don't check their sources well.
Uh huh. What superior media did you find this out from?
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:32 AM   #1454 (permalink)
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A quick thought on the protests in general:

I live in Northeast DC and walked down to the Capitol around 1:30 on Saturday to see what could be seen. I was surprised and pleased to find 600,000 of my closest friends in good spirits, holding clever signs (my favorite was along the lines of 'if I make my uterus a corporation will you stop regulating it?'), and feeling the camaraderie of being surrounded by ideological allies. I saw families, groups of 'frat star' bros, beautiful women, crust punk-types, old people, children, and one guy in a wizard robe. It was truly awesome.

Outside of the violence on Friday (committed by anarchist groups, NOT representative of the anti-Trump protesters) the rally was peaceful, massive, and inspiring. I'm looking forward to the next one - might actually make a sign this time instead of just observing.



There is a world of difference from being a candidate and being the president. He has to either a) follow-through on his promises (the wall, banning immigration from Muslim countries) or b) not follow-through. Either he does a, which appeals to 30% of the voting public (well, that's how many voted for him, it remains to be seen how many of those were pure anti-Clinton votes) and damns him even more in the eyes of everyone else or he does b, in which case 70% of the public still thinks he's an ass, but now he's told lies he can't walk away from and the 30% that voted for him feel betrayed. It's a no-win. If you have another path to a victorious Trump presidency I'm (and I'm guess he is) all ears.

Serious question, do you support a border wall and a ban on Muslim's entering the US?
I attended the inauguration (in protest). It was pretty crazy. My wife went to the women's march (I got sick so I couldn't go) and the difference in the vibe was night and day. The inauguration made it crystal clear the divide we have in our country right now. Protesters were seriously angry (and yes, the ones destroying property were anarchists, not anti-Trump protesters) and supporters looked really confused as they walked by. Like "why are they upset?". I think a lot of them seriously don't understand it. Just like we don't understand them.

I was excited to be a part of something historic...I didn't even get into the mall because protesters were blocking people from getting in at the security checkpoints (before someone makes the argument that this is why the crowd looked thin, there really weren't millions more behind me blocked from getting in. Metro around 9AM was absolutely DEAD). In quite a fitting moment, it started to rain right as Trump started swearing in. It stopped, and Trump said something like "it's because God wouldn't let it rain on the inauguration" (which is something even more scary - I'm seeing more and more religious references. At least before he was just secular crazy. This has got to be an attempt to get the religious right support). Generally, I can safely say no one looked too thrilled (supporters or protesters).

One particularly sad moment came on my way home. The people waiting to get on the metro started shoving their way through the people trying to get off the train. The people getting on were getting annoyed at these people trying to get off and someone made the comment they are "probably democrats". Someone bumped into someone else's wife and the response was "You touch my wife again and I'll ****ing kill you." This is the divide we face right now. Common decency is going out the window.

For the record, if any of you reading this are a tourist and not used to taking a public transportation system - let people OFF before you get ON a bus or train. If you are on an escalator, stand RIGHT and walk LEFT. You will make a lot of people happy.
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Old 01-23-2017, 12:23 PM   #1455 (permalink)
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For the record, if any of you reading this are a tourist and not used to taking a public transportation system - let people OFF before you get ON a bus or train. If you are on an escalator, stand RIGHT and walk LEFT. You will make a lot of people happy.
This is basic in any country,so I don't think being a tourist is an acceptable excuse. Mind you, even where we know full well how we're supposed to behave, we find idiots doing the pushing and crowding past. Our buses these days are trying to promote the idea of getting on at the front and off through the centre doors (good idea; cuts down on just this sort of thing) but people have yet to get the idea into their heads. Doesn't help of course when you're patiently waiting at the centre doors to be let off and the stupid driver doesn't open them, necessitating a mad rush to the front door before you end up being carried for another stop!
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Old 01-23-2017, 01:06 PM   #1456 (permalink)
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1. I'm pretty sure you mean Reagan, not Clinton.


2. Uh huh. What superior media did you find this out from?
1. Nope, definitely Clinton.

Are the Clintons the real housing crash villains? - CNBC

2. Reuters is defending the photo, but there's no way to verify it. It screams fishy.

Trump supporters claim ‘fake news’ over crowd size with photo evidence | The Mercury
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Old 01-23-2017, 01:16 PM   #1457 (permalink)
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1. It's almost like it was an amalgation of several different presidents' policies that created the atmosphere for the recession.

2. It is interesting that only one photo was taken of the inaugural crowd. I noted earlier that this ranks the dumbest hot topic in political media history.
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Old 01-23-2017, 01:42 PM   #1458 (permalink)
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There's a case to be made that banking deregulations done under Clinton's administration was what made the collapse so bad

But what's described in that article is mostly nonsense trying to find a way to spin a collapse that was caused by a lack of regulation in a period of massive deregulation as somehow caused by gov interference
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Old 01-23-2017, 02:04 PM   #1459 (permalink)
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1. Nope, definitely Clinton.

Are the Clintons the real housing crash villains? - CNBC

2. Reuters is defending the photo, but there's no way to verify it. It screams fishy.

Trump supporters claim ‘fake news’ over crowd size with photo evidence | The Mercury
The photo was shot earlier in the day. If you take a look at photos shot from the stage out you can see that his inauguration was as large of an audience as previous times.
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Old 01-23-2017, 02:08 PM   #1460 (permalink)
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That could be a misleading perspective, js.

And now for some good news (TPP only, not the other two orders mentioned)
Trump signs order withdrawing U.S. from Trans-Pacific trade deal | Reuters
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