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Chula Vista 01-30-2017 08:12 PM


Originally Posted by Goofle (Post 1801441)
Obama hates Muslims man. No wonder he picked those specific countries.

I thought you were going to shut up? At least do some research instead of just being a parrot. Your orange looks nothing like the actual apple.
Act like a grown up for a change.

Goofle 01-30-2017 08:45 PM

Obama selected the specific countries Trump "banned". That's a fact. Read the document bro.

Frownland 01-30-2017 08:50 PM

If you're referring to Obama telling the DoHS to focus on the travel to and from one country in an attempt to catch two fugitives then I guess you could say that both instances are the same if you remove 100% of the context.

Chula Vista 01-30-2017 08:51 PM


Originally Posted by Goofle (Post 1801446)
Obama selected the specific countries Trump "banned". That's a fact. Read the document bro.

Read very slowly:


So, are the policies similar as Trump claimed?

In the most superficial of ways, yes. They both limit immigration into the United States on a temporary basis. But there are two significant differences that Trump omits.

In 2011, there was a specific threat

First, Obama’s suspension was in direct response to a failed plot by Iraqi nationals living in Bowling Green, Ky., to send money, explosives and weapons to al-Qaida. The two men were arrested by the FBI in May 2011 for actions committed in Iraq and trying to assist overseas terrorist groups.

Both had entered the United States as refugees after lying about their past terrorism ties on paperwork. One man worked as a bombmaker in Iraq, and the FBI even matched his fingerprints to an unexploded IED discovered in 2005 in Iraq, raising questions about the thoroughness of the vetting process.

Trump’s ban, meanwhile, is more preemptive. As PolitiFact reported, no refugee or immigrant from any of the seven countries targeted by the ban has been implicated in any fatal terrorist attack in the United States, though perpetrators of at least three non-deadly cases were connected to Iran or Somalia.

Obama’s order was narrower in scope

Second, the scope of the two policies is slightly different. Obama’s 2011 order put a pause on refugee processing, whereas Trump’s halt in entries applies to all non-U.S. visitors.

It should also be noted that Iraqi refugees were still admitted to the United States every month in 2011, though there was a significant drop after May of that year.

According to the New York Times, the Obama administration also required new background checks for visa applicants from Iraq after the Bowling Green incident. Lawmakers at a 2012 congressional hearing also indicated that the Department of Homeland Security expanded screening to the Iraqi refugees already settled in the United States.

But again, these are different from a blanket ban on visitors. Obama, speaking through a spokesperson, disagreed with the comparison in a statement.

There are other precedents for temporary halts in immigration. A 2016 Congressional Research Service report notes that refugee admissions were also briefly suspended after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attack to review the security procedures, leading to an overhaul of the system. A special subset of refugee admissions for reuniting families was suspended in 2008 in certain locations in Africa after higher rates of fraud.

So like Obama’s 2011 suspension, both the post-9/11 and African cases were in reaction to immediate issues and limited to refugees.

Trump’s order is broader, and his administration has provided no evidence it is in response to any particular event.

The seven countries on Trump’s list

While not necessarily part of this fact-check, Trump’s suggestion that he selected the seven countries as a continuation of Obama’s policy is imprecise.

According to the executive order, Trump’s action applies to "countries designated pursuant to Division O, Title II, Section 203 of the 2016 consolidated Appropriations Act."

That refers to a 2015 act, signed into law by Obama, revising the United States’ visa waiver program. The visa waiver program allows citizens from 38 countries to enter the United States without a visa for up to 90 days. Under the legislation, citizens of those 38 countries who had traveled to Iraq, Syria, Iran, and Sudan after March 2011 were no longer eligible for the visa waiver. Libya, Yemen, and Somalia were later added to the list.

In other words, Obama’s actions dealt with people who had visited Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia and Yemen, not citizens of those countries, and it did not prohibit them from entering the United States.

Again, act like an adult.

Goofle 01-30-2017 09:12 PM

Obama lacked action, we get it.

Frownland 01-30-2017 09:14 PM

Wait, if Trump did the same thing as Obama, what caused it to be effective this time around and why didn't it work before? Or are we deluding ourselves with partisan politics again?

Chula Vista 01-30-2017 09:38 PM


Originally Posted by Goofle (Post 1801449)
Obama lacked action, we get it.

Please list all of the terrorist acts committed or planned by a citizen of those 7 countries that took place in the United States.

Now do the same for the 4 Muslim countries that Trump excluded from the ban, and just by chance, were part of 9/11 AND, he has lucrative business connections with.

And also, Trump is president. Not Obama. Stop looking backwards and deal with the present. Isn't that what all of you conservatives were preaching very loudly after Obama took office? Stop being a hypocrite.

I'll be waiting on your lists.

elphenor 01-30-2017 10:43 PM


Originally Posted by Goofle (Post 1801449)
Obama lacked action, we get it.

this degree of gymnastics to not admit you're dead wrong

Anteater 01-30-2017 10:56 PM

It isn't just Trump with conflicts of interest in Saudi's the whole damn U.S. For that reason, I'm not surprised Trump didn't ban them, nor am I surprised previous administrations didn't ban them either.

Frownland 01-30-2017 11:07 PM

Congressional term limits: yay or nay?

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