Islam in Europe

**Marie Monday** · 11-16-2020, 04:55 PM

I guess I'm expressing myself badly because I agree with all that. I guess I should clarify that I've never thought of discrimination as the root cause, just one cause of many

OccultHawk · 11-16-2020, 07:13 PM

Why are so many of the rich and powerful fundamentalists?

~~jwb~~ · 11-16-2020, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

it's only an uncomfortable conversation when one side thinks Islam is its own reason for the fundamental practice

if we understand that a secular Islam is totally possible under better circumstances, then we can honestly move towards solutions

I don't agree

It's uncomfortable because of the current reality of the situation. You can speculate as to why Islam has xyz tendency but the reality on the ground doesn't change regardless of what that reason is.

Can there be a more secular Islam? Sure if you water it down and stop taking it so seriously. But thats not how the Muslim world at large approaches it and that's where this clash of values comes from.

~~jwb~~ · 11-16-2020, 11:06 PM

Nobody thinks they are practicing watered down religion. Religious people are delusional.

It's irrelevant to the central point anyway. The huge amount you speak of is a small minority. Especially in the actual Muslim world.

~~jwb~~ · 11-17-2020, 12:37 AM

They are delusional

They have faith in a document they don't even understand

And neither do you. You make it abundantly clear you know nothing about Islam or even Christianity and religion in general.

You just want to believe the best. Or believe it's so subjective that there's no limit to how to the text can be interpreted and no relationship between how it's commonly interpreted and how it was intended.

And as such, you are also delusional.

~~jwb~~ · 11-17-2020, 12:59 AM

I know what faith means ffs

It goes hand in hand with delusion. Believing things despite evidence to the contrary is kinda a hallmark trait of delusion. And since it lends itself to easily to such motivated reasoning, it's not surprising that religious people who have accepted a watered down secularized version of their faith fail to realize this.

~~jwb~~ · 11-17-2020, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

probably pretty easy to **** on that notion if you're the benefactor of the exploitation of the rest of the world like you and I

but when you're a ****ing refugee faith might be the literal only thing you have

oh wow

So religion is just the opiate of the masses huh

But not at all delusional

Stop posturing. I guarantee I have a more personal and intimate understanding of the religious mindset than you. I've seen it up close and personal. I've been immersed in it. It can be a positive thing for some people. But it's nonetheless delusional and detached from reality. False hope for the hopeless. Comfort for the uncomfortable.

**Marie Monday** · 11-17-2020, 02:19 AM

Smart people can be deluded Elph. Actually, sometimes I think being smart only gives a brain more opportunities to set its own traps. Religious people can be very smart and sensible in other ways but they're definitely deluded, come on

OccultHawk · 11-17-2020, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

evidence to the contrary?

people who believe in Qanon are deluded

someone of Faith recognizes they're acting out of a sort of trust with conviction

you obviously don't know what it means, because if you're deluded you don't need Faith

Qanon is nowhere near as unlikely as a dead person came back to life and life after death and all the other entirely DELUSIONAL fantasy bull**** beliefs religious people have. An afterlife is impossible. Pizzagate is highly unlikely. Faith is just a generous word extended to people who believe something that’s not only unlikely but entirely impossible. Qanon has like 1 and a billion chance of being real. Heaven has a zero chance of being real. Zero. It’s impossible. Having faith in something that absolutely cannot be true is the most deluded you can be. There’s nothing more certain than the finality of death. Believing otherwise is the most delusional belief a person can have. There’s nothing more ridiculous.

You don’t have faith UNLESS you’re deluded.

OccultHawk · 11-17-2020, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

well, no

that's why we have separate words here

if I tell you I have Faith that you'll catch me, this is not the same as my belief that gravity will make me fall

That’s different because I might catch you.

There is no life after death. Now if I’m lying there dead and you think I’m going to catch you that’s the equivalent of religious faith. Totally delusional.

11-16-2020, 07:13 PM	#1482 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,033	Why are so many of the rich and powerful fundamentalists? __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

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11-16-2020, 11:06 PM	#1484 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Nobody thinks they are practicing watered down religion. Religious people are delusional. It's irrelevant to the central point anyway. The huge amount you speak of is a small minority. Especially in the actual Muslim world.

11-17-2020, 12:37 AM	#1485 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	They are delusional They have faith in a document they don't even understand And neither do you. You make it abundantly clear you know nothing about Islam or even Christianity and religion in general. You just want to believe the best. Or believe it's so subjective that there's no limit to how to the text can be interpreted and no relationship between how it's commonly interpreted and how it was intended. And as such, you are also delusional.

11-17-2020, 12:59 AM	#1486 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	I know what faith means ffs It goes hand in hand with delusion. Believing things despite evidence to the contrary is kinda a hallmark trait of delusion. And since it lends itself to easily to such motivated reasoning, it's not surprising that religious people who have accepted a watered down secularized version of their faith fail to realize this.