Islam in Europe

grindy · 08-17-2017, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mord

Same. I understand the lure of alcohol, so I made a rule: drinks only from 6 PM Saturday night until the end of Sunday night. That's my Sabbath.

I'm generally not that interested in drinking, unless I'm going out with friends.

Zhanteimi · 08-17-2017, 10:24 PM

.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 08-18-2017, 07:59 AM

There was another attack btw.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/40966524

Islamic State claim it.

djchameleon · 08-18-2017, 08:46 AM

Is that the stabbing in Finland?

~~Cuthbert~~ · 08-18-2017, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

Is that the stabbing in Finland?

Na, there was an attempted copycat attack late last night in Spain. The police killed four people, pictures of the bodies with suicide belts on though the belts were fake I think.

It was in Cambrils.

Cambrils, Barcelona and Alcanar incidents 'related' - ITV News

Hours later five suspected terrorists wearing fake suicide vests were shot by police after driving into people in the coastal town of Cambrils.

Seven people, including a police officer, were injured in that attack. One woman later died.

Wpnfire · 08-18-2017, 09:09 AM

I guess Europe is going to need to start placing bollards on the border of all streets.

The Batlord · 08-18-2017, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man like Monkey

There was another attack btw.

Spain attacks - latest updates - BBC News

Islamic State claim it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man like Monkey

There was another attack btw.

Spain attacks - latest updates - BBC News

Islamic State claim it.

You can say that again. Oh wait you already did.

djchameleon · 08-18-2017, 03:30 PM

Well here is a link to the Finland stabbing.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-f...-idUSKCN1AY1IS

Two died and six were wounded.
They aren't investigating it as a terrorist attack but aren't completely ruling it out yet.

Lilja · 08-19-2017, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riseagainstrocks

To your first part, those numbers are a tad misleading:
https://www.economist.com/news/finan...ees-sweden-are

Doesn't mean the lower participation rate isn't a problem, but the context behind the numbers is faulty. The actual foreign-borne participation rate in the workforce is 63-65%, compared to 76-77% for native born Swedes. The phrasing of your statistic (and the parroting of the number on the Daily Caller and Brietbart) implies that immigrants/migrants/refugees/foreign-born residents participate at less than a 1% rate in the workforce, as a whole.

Things that aren't considered: 1. Not speaking the language. 2. Not reading the language 3. Likely having spent the past the past three months prior to arriving in Sweden running from some smugglers and to others. 4. Likely having spent the past three months prior to arriving in Sweden living in an active warzone. 5. Swedish cultural bias towards native born Swedes for open jobs (by the way, I'm not making a moral judgment here - even me, on my liberal "high horse" prefer the company of like-minded people who share my cultural and aesthetic values).

Point being, when you see a statistic that scream "foreigners are weird, feckless, and only harm their new communities", take a second and see if the context of that statistic is being manipulated. To judge the influx of a couple hundred thousand refugees, many fleeing from civil war and ethnic cleansing, as a failure after the first year or two is ahistorical. This is not to say that maybe, on balance, these new arrivals will be bad for Sweden in the long term. But that would buck a global trend of immigration being a net positive for the communities that embrace it.

To the second quoted paragraph, I fail to see how identifying them as Muslim affects your argument in any way. Unless you're saying that because they are Muslim they are incapable of being productive members of Swedish society?

Actually, your statistic is more misleading. Mine just refers to the amount of people seeking asylum during a given year and how many got jobs after a certain period of time according to arbetsförmedlingen (that is Sweden's national work office). Yours groups all foregn workers together. That isn't the group I was referring to.

I do consider language. Hence, we give refugees free language lessons/free education. They can even go to University free if they wish (allthough free education is a given right for all). Is Swedish hard? Yes. But there are no requirements for them to pass the language classes and they can take the same class over and over again and still get the benifits.

What happens if they cannot speak the language and they need to go to the hospital/sign their kids up for school/driver's license etc... We provide translators.

In other words, we (Sweden) have created a society where you do no have to learn the language or anything about the culture to get money. Is this advantageous to someone who just wants the money? Of course!

Do we consider that people might be emotionally scarred from living in active warzones? Yes. I said already you can be declared too emotionally scarred to work. In Sweden we have "Sjukskriven" which means you can be declarred too emotionally sick/physically sick to work and just live off of welfare. It is an accepted part of our society although the amount has risen, as a whole, over the last few years.

Do I buck the amount of refugees that Sweden took in...because we took in the amount of refugees from places such as Syria that countries such as the US and England said no too? Yes. It was stupid. We are a much smaller county, population wise, than most. There were no long-term plans in place. And we are paying for it with a huge increase in people using welfare . That is why I think the benifits should be cut for new refugees. For a while, women who arrived with children were getting retroactive benifits for their children who were not even born in this country. Is that fair?

Do Swedes hire swedes over non-Swedes? Don't most (if not all) countries prefer natives for most jobs?

Perhaps the point about saying most were followers of Islam was a bit much.
I am just tired of this feeling that I am expected to welcome rather than newcomers should just be thankful.

Lilja · 08-19-2017, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

This happens stateside too but people that have never applied for welfare just go around screaming everyone is frauding welfare to buy drugs based off of someone they know.

The real crooks out of the system here in the states is that the businesses that are hiring these unpaid welfare workers are getting a kick back and also using it as an excuse to not hiring union workers. They also in turn don't have to pay for insurance or any other benefits that comes with hiring a regular employee. The money given here is like 30 bucks per month the biggest benefit comes from the food stamps and having your rent paid. Those workfare workers end up getting stuck in these temp type jobs and barely ever transition over to a regular job. If they do get a regular job things like childcare gets cut off immediately then they struggle to pay for a babysitter while waiting for their first check and their check might not even be enough to cover childcare and transportation to work so they end up giving up and going back on welfare.

Actually that is what is happening here. Many of these "temp" workers end up in jobs working for the work office, work for a period of time, and then (after a few months), a new temp is brought in. The person hiring gets the kickbacks from the workoffice of a non-union qualified worker that they pay little for. The person working gets established in the workplace, thinks they might be hired, then a new worker shows up. Evil cycle.

08-17-2017, 10:24 PM	#1102 (permalink)
Zhanteimi Mord Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Tokyo Posts: 4,874	. __________________ Zhanteimi LetsTalkMusic Last edited by Zhanteimi; 05-01-2018 at 04:27 PM.

08-18-2017, 09:09 AM	#1106 (permalink)
Wpnfire Dragon Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Kansas, United States Posts: 2,744	I guess Europe is going to need to start placing bollards on the border of all streets. __________________ Last.FM My RYM Ratings *My Glitchwave Beta Profile*

08-18-2017, 07:59 AM	#1103 (permalink)
~~Cuthbert~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Black Country Posts: 8,827	There was another attack btw. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/40966524 Islamic State claim it.