Frownland

Already set on a couple of berets but a red star military cap wouldn't be a bad move.

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

The Batlord

You can't even imagine yourself siding against power on a hypothetical but you can imagine selling cocaine to Mexicans cause you listen to too much hippity hop. What a boring, unimaginative bitch.

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jwb

Yes you are right selling drugs to people asking for drugs really stretches the bounds of the imagination...

I didn't say i can't imagine hypothetically there being terrorism that i would be sympathetic to but in practice i generally don't find it productive. If you have such a big imagination then you would try to illustrate a scenario where you do think it is plausible... Frownland at least kinda sorta tries to do so though not very compelling imo .. but from you all i hear it's pent up rage and revenge fantasies that get you off but are fundamentally no different from the kid who fantasizes about standing up to his bully but then when push comes to shove never does

Fundamentally where we disagree is that to me the consequences are more important than your supposed motive. If your justification is that these people are ****ing over the planet that only carries any weight to me if you have a plan or scenario that you think would do something to actually correct that. I don't think revenge for the sheer sake of retribution is particularly ethically compelling. Though I'm sure it does feel good. I wouldnt even take much issue with that if it didn't lead to significant blowback that made things worse in general... But that is where my primary concern lies. Call that boring if you want but you asked an ethical question not "what's your favorite revenge fantasy?"

The Batlord

Pent up rage and revenge fantasies? And you accuse me of strawmanning.

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Frownland

Your certainty of the Ultra Powerful Government justifiably and successfully enacting fascism in response to pressure from below is more dogmatic than anything batlord has said in this thread. Quit lying to yourself about this "concern" being exceptional. The consequences of approaching fixing the environment without impacting people's abilities to make money off of destroying it is the blowback that ecoterrorists are interested in avoiding.

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Lisnaholic

You make it difficult for me to slither away from this direct moral question, Batlord, even though it's of the kind I really hate to answer.

In any country that's even approximately democratic, I'm a law-abidding guy, so, the Yes/No answer, is Yes, I would condemn ecoterrorism because there are (however hypothetically) democratically-arrived-at remedies available.
If you're putting me in the position of a judge; what sentences would I hand out? I'd draw a line between property damage and kidnap/loss of life. For property damage, I'd probably give the lightest sentence/fine possible, but I'd come down a lot harder on any death/torture stuff - and even without torture, kidnap is a type of torture imo.

Anyway, that's the answer I'd give if I were sitting in a pub with my pals, at which point they would all groan and say, "You can never get a bloody straight answer out of this guy!"

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"Am I enjoying this moment? I know of it and perhaps that is enough." - Sybille Bedford, 1953

jwb

it's not at all dogmatic, it's very predictable given the recent history of the war on terror.

I'm not even saying it will lead to full blown fascism but it's pretty reasonable to assume it will lead to a crack down... Which might very well lead to more sympathy among certain populations for the insurgents... But can you give me a single recent example that would lead you to believe this tactic would actually work in favor of the cause... Cause even when it comes t to global jihad, yeah they're more powerful today than they were 30 years ago but are they any closer to establishing a global caliphate? Complete lost cause...

Fact of the matter is that batlord asked a loaded question and then the two of you have just been giving me **** for not answering it the way you wanted. You just want us all to agree and say yay ecoterrorism or what?

Frownland

Can you cite a single recent example of well coordinated ecoterrorism that you're basing your stance on?

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Neapolitan

The Monkey Wrench Gang. You didn't say it had to be a nonfictious example, only an example.

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The Batlord

Like I said, I wasn't talking to you. I was specifically asking Lisna if he'd become more blackpilled, not opening a thoughtful debate with the rest of the forum.

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