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Old 09-11-2017, 11:12 AM   #891 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Frownland View Post
You don't see how boiling a group of people down to their economic benefits is dehumanizing? Would you support overturning DACA if this particular segment wasn't fiscally positive? Look up infer.

Keep DACA in place because they're goddamn people who lived their whole lives here. That's all the reasoning you need.
In my skimming of these threads, I generally think Chula brings a lot of 'pile on' on himself, but these last few pages is just silliness from Frownland and TheBatlord.

The mainstream argument advanced against DACA recipients is that they are a drain on the economy and that they take jobs that otherwise would have gone to true, blue American citizens. It makes sense to respond to that argument with economic rebuttals. Posing a hypothetical that wishes away the primary reasons for conservatives resistance to DACA is asking to hear the echo chamber answer that many of us here agree with "they're as American as you or I and it's insanity to send a kid who's spent 75% of his 16 years in the suburbs of Cleveland back to El Salvador".

So,
Chula: deporting DACA recipients is a foolish economic move

Frown/Bat: would you still think it's bad if economics played no part/it was a wise economic move?

Chula: that is both immaterial and non-demonstrable, so why should I have opinion on a set of facts that no one can show exists?

Frown/Bat: you have no conviction.

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Originally Posted by Anteater
Trump made an interesting "left-turn" last week (no pun intended) in regards to working with Chuck Schumer and Pelosi on raising the debt ceiling, helping the hurricane victims and pushing for some kind of DACA Act. Anyone got thoughts on these developments?
I'm 99% sure Trump doesn't know what the debt ceiling is (or most Congressmen for that matter - it doesn't mean we borrow more, it means we can pay for services already rendered, the money has been spent, you can't stop it on the back end without suffering real credit problems). Also, he's repeatedly said raising the debt ceiling is non-negotiable, so... not the best political operator. If you somehow needed more proof. Regardless, I'm not one to look a gift horse - thanks Don! Keep cutting deals with the, on balance, more sane party in Congress.
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Old 09-11-2017, 11:18 AM   #892 (permalink)
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Things can change in a heartbeat and even if they don't, statistics can be subjected to p-hacking. I think it's pretty short-sighted to only use certain types of justifications and logic when they uphold things you already support. We need to consider whether or not we're crafting a weapon for the other side to use against us. It builds this philosophy of economic sensibility being equivalent to moral superiority, which we both know is untrue as all ****.
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Old 09-11-2017, 01:21 PM   #893 (permalink)
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I'm 99% sure Trump doesn't know what the debt ceiling is (or most Congressmen for that matter - it doesn't mean we borrow more, it means we can pay for services already rendered, the money has been spent
I think they understand this they just bank on your average American being confused so they can play chicken and then blame those big spending Dems

Like when our credit rating got downgraded I can't tell you how many Republicans I talked to who bought it entirely and thought it got downgraded because we borrowed too much as opposed to the real reason that Republicans put our word that we'd pay it back into question
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:39 AM   #894 (permalink)
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Old 09-15-2017, 07:30 PM   #895 (permalink)
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Things can change in a heartbeat and even if they don't, statistics can be subjected to p-hacking.
Yes, so the 300+ business leaders who are against DACA over financial reasons don't know ****. And don't have the ability to forecast well past "a heartbeat". And those same 300+ business leaders (and their numerous financial advisors) don't understand data dredging as much as you obvioulsy do.

I already noted how much moral sensibility had been granted to the subject long before the economics started coming to the forefront. But you only see what you want to see to further your ****ing self sense of yourself and how bright you think you are.
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Old 09-15-2017, 07:33 PM   #896 (permalink)
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Oh you.

You're just too insecure to accept any form of criticism. I'm not even going to bother dismantling your post that 100% misses my point because you fail to see what you don't already agree with and it's just a waste of time.
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Old 09-16-2017, 06:26 AM   #897 (permalink)
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Welcome back, Chula!
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Old 09-16-2017, 07:34 AM   #898 (permalink)
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Can't stand Cenk. Or the woman.

Oh and Chules is back with a bang
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Old 09-16-2017, 08:58 AM   #899 (permalink)
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Can't stand Cenk. Or the woman.

Oh and Chules is back with a bang
i can see what ya mean, the girl gets too yelly sometimes and the dude can seem too pretentious sometimes. they push left propaganda though, just seems to be more balanced sometimes over the rights propaganda.

fox news has done damage to America that wont be fixed for years. fox news separated generations, still prolly doing it.
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Old 09-16-2017, 09:03 AM   #900 (permalink)
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i can see what ya mean, the girl gets too yelly sometimes and the dude can seem too pretentious sometimes. they push left propaganda though, just seems to be more balanced sometimes over the rights propaganda.
negative. they're just as biased to leftist ideas as any right leaning news outlet is to the right.
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