Political Discussions for "Adults"

Oriphiel · 08-04-2018, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

Mao industrialized China without which it could not compete

and you're right China had periods of great power

Was already being industrialized during the Republic period. Like I said, similar to how Japan modernized in the Meiji Restoration, China was heading in the same direction, only they had less of a headstart since the Republic started around 1912 iirc, while the Meiji was late 1800s (again, off the top of my head and on my phone).

Most Sino historians agree that Mao set China back considerably. Only the increasingly Capitalist policies following his death brought China back to where it was.

The "periods of great power" all coincide with Mercantilist policies and free trade. Saying that Mao/Communism put China ahead is very ignorant of Chinese history.

Oriphiel · 08-05-2018, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I won't say ignorant, but very curious why you would ignore the rampant exploitation from the colonial powers following the Open Door Policy

the humiliation they suffered lead them to retaliate with more isolationist policy

it was only when China had put itself in a favorable position (with very heavy central planning that still continues) that Capitalist reforms could pay off

I didn't ignore it. I actually mentioned it. Kinda like how I mentioned that it was the isolationism and deemphasis on trade and science during the Ming (an abandonment of Mercantilism) that lead to China falling behind the rest of the world, and thus being bullied by European powers during the Qing.

I've already gone over this and provided examples of how turning away from Marcantilism and free trade has always ****ed China over historically.

Fun fact: The vast majority of the steel that Mao famously forced farmers to make in lieu of planting crops ended up being too flawed for actual use. The Mao years may seem like a productive time on the surface level, but pretty much every "accomplishment" of his was actually a massive failure with a PR propaganda spin.

Communist China had a fraction of the relative power and influence it had during the Qin, Han, Tang, etc., and was already modernizing during the pre-Communist Republic years. If anything, most historians agree that Mao actually slowed progress down through his constant blunders and massive wasting of resources.

But hey, maybe the books I read in college were biased. It happens. If you have any books with dissenting opinions that you think might change my mind, I'd be happy to check them out. I love learning more about Chinese history.