Universal Basic Income or Class Warfare

OccultHawk · 12-10-2017, 11:34 PM

Actually I built the Abortionator2000. The footage from his body cam is fantastic whack shack footage.

Chula Vista · 12-10-2017, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Not sure if I’m buying that one.

I said getting much better, not perfect in every corner of the country. You're highlighting 4 crap factories. As of 2008 China was estimated to have about 1.9 million manufacturing plants. My first trip over there was in I think 94-95. Since then I've made about a dozen more trips and visited maybe 3 dozen factories in at least 10 different cities/provinces. In all that time there was only one small metal shop (deep drawn steel backcans) that scared the **** out of me and that was back in 1998. The second worst factory I've ever spent time in was in Los Angeles. This was also about 20 years ago. I don't know if it's changed, but back then if you'd been in business long enough you didn't have to keep up with any newer OSHA and safety standards. You were basically grandfathered in to the standards from when you started up.

There's also this. China wages and benefits have grown exponentially faster than the US. In most of the US wages have been stagnant for eons.

The dollar amounts are small but the cost of living for factory workers over there is lower than anywhere in the US, especially considering that factories provide food and lodging free to their workers. These people do not have to make mortgage or car payments and their clothes (uniforms) are also provided.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

I am the individual I want to be and (#1.) as a non-oppressed minority have every opportunity to make something of myself, idk what other kind of individualism and freedom you could ask for. (#2.) Also, the rich have no control over me voting with my dollar contrary to what Chula tries to push on everyone. (#3.) People shop at Walmart because they can't be bothered not to or simply don't care enough.

#1. So your opinions in this thread come from a fortunate bubble. Cool.

#2. So you have no worries about your 401K, your home value, your investments, your health care, your real estate taxes, etc. See #1.

#3. Broad brush much? Maybe some people don't have a lot of other convenient options, or maybe some people make crap wages and have to stretch their dollars as much as possible.

When Linda suddenly lost her job, and my salary was sliced by 30% we started doing Grocery shopping at the local Walmart simply out of pure necessity to get by.

Maajo · 12-11-2017, 02:43 AM

China has universal health care, and **** that isn't property ownership is quite cheap in general. It's far from perfect, but how the hell can you say that we shouldn't be looking at some of what they're doing when they're clearly passing us up at least in economic efficiency. Hell, they're at least trying out solar energy while Republicans do anything they can to make that go away.

Also, I love America, I love that we have al of these different cultures here, but Europe has a lot of different cultures too and they're a lot less lied to by Rupert Murdoch and they genuinely seem like happier people who have governments that looks after their interests. We'll never get that if we keep voting for these republicans who keep us in the past so that Koch Brothers and Walmart can keep their power. I think we should look to what Europe is doing above all else if we want the middle class that we used to have when my grandparents were young.

DwnWthVwls · 12-11-2017, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

lol not exactly

People shop at Walmart because they are broke

and because for instance where i live there is hardly any alternatives because the corporation ruthlessely eliminates small buisness as part of its game plan

Im willing to acknowledge that for the people in the situation you describe its justified, but how do you justify it for all the other people who have alternatives and arent broke? Because thats the demographic of every NJ Walmart ive been to.

Also, LOL at Chula expecting a response from me.

Xurtio · 12-11-2017, 05:39 AM

It's not just money - and you dont have to be broke. I make an alright wage, but I wouldnt be able to build up any savings if I went to mom n pop stores. Also, time is a huge factor. Between kids and work, I work about 12 hours. I have two hours between getting my kids home and putting them to bed. Last thing I want to do is visit three different stores spread across town when I can get it all at one place for cheaper.

No matter how much money you make, you still only get about 16 waking hours a day. You have to be fiiillthy rich to turn any of that time back over to yourself.

**Goofle** · 12-11-2017, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

having to live in a society that forces you to spend money to live would be repulsive even if they gave you the money but to set it up so you have to work to get money when you never even wanted to live in this sort of economy in the first place is ****ing sadistic

I believe that people who think like yourself should be able to freely associate and set up a place to live wherein you try and make the kind of society you consent to work.

DwnWthVwls · 12-11-2017, 06:45 AM

To be clear im not advocating for mom and pop stores, which seem to have become high price hipster shops (at least near me). Im talking about thrift stores, farmers markets, and other like shops that have competitive pricing. not to mention all the potential online shopping.

But like you said, you cant be bothered to visit 3 different stores. This is not an issue worth voting with your dollar over. For me, i dont have kids or want them, so i have a lot of free time to turn back on myself. You dont have to be filthy rich.

OccultHawk · 12-11-2017, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofle

I believe that people who think like yourself should be able to freely associate and set up a place to live wherein you try and make the kind of society you consent to work.

That’s one thing I appreciate about libertarians and real conservatives. What you said is a simple live and let live olive branch approach but not one that is ever extended by the governments of the world. I like the you do your thing and I’ll do mine philosophies of tribal anarchism (and even anarchocapitalists —don’t freak Elph). Unfortunately, the philosophy is mostly dominated by people with racist agendas. Even then, people who want to live racially segregated should be allowed the space for it.

However, if automation and UBI come as a package the outlier groups will be those who actually want to care for themselves.

**Goofle** · 12-11-2017, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

That’s one thing I appreciate about libertarians and real conservatives. What you said is a simple live and let live olive branch approach but not one that is ever extended by the governments of the world. I like the you do your thing and I’ll do mine philosophies of tribal anarchism (and even anarchocapitalists —don’t freak Elph). Unfortunately, the philosophy is mostly dominated by people with racist agendas. Even then, people who want to live racially segregated should be allowed the space for it.

However, if automation and UBI come as a package the outlier groups will be those who actually want to care for themselves.

Any proof that ancaps and general libertarians are dominated by racists? I've literally never seen any racism from people within serious ancap/libertarian communities.

Of course every group has it's weird 4chan type spinoffs (ancapistan on FB for example) but that's natural.

OccultHawk · 12-11-2017, 08:20 AM

I’m sorry for not making myself clear. I only meant tribal anarchists.

12-10-2017, 11:34 PM	#181 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,033	Actually I built the Abortionator2000. The footage from his body cam is fantastic whack shack footage. __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

12-11-2017, 05:39 AM	#185 (permalink)
Xurtio Brain Licker Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 1,083	It's not just money - and you dont have to be broke. I make an alright wage, but I wouldnt be able to build up any savings if I went to mom n pop stores. Also, time is a huge factor. Between kids and work, I work about 12 hours. I have two hours between getting my kids home and putting them to bed. Last thing I want to do is visit three different stores spread across town when I can get it all at one place for cheaper. No matter how much money you make, you still only get about 16 waking hours a day. You have to be fiiillthy rich to turn any of that time back over to yourself. __________________ H̓̇̅̉yͤ͏mͬ͂ͧn͑̽̽̌ͪ̑͐͟o̴͊̈́͑̇m͛͌̓ͦ̑aͫ̽ͤ̇n̅̎͐̒ͫ͐c̆ͯͫ̋ ̔̃́eͯ͒rͬͬ̄҉

12-11-2017, 08:20 AM	#190 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,033	I’m sorry for not making myself clear. I only meant tribal anarchists. __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

12-11-2017, 02:43 AM	#183 (permalink)
Maajo Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Colorado Posts: 513	China has universal health care, and **** that isn't property ownership is quite cheap in general. It's far from perfect, but how the hell can you say that we shouldn't be looking at some of what they're doing when they're clearly passing us up at least in economic efficiency. Hell, they're at least trying out solar energy while Republicans do anything they can to make that go away. Also, I love America, I love that we have al of these different cultures here, but Europe has a lot of different cultures too and they're a lot less lied to by Rupert Murdoch and they genuinely seem like happier people who have governments that looks after their interests. We'll never get that if we keep voting for these republicans who keep us in the past so that Koch Brothers and Walmart can keep their power. I think we should look to what Europe is doing above all else if we want the middle class that we used to have when my grandparents were young.