Music Banter - Universal Basic Income or Class Warfare

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Idk, find a spot. Homeless people live on the street without paying taxes or buying property, go do it in the woods instead. I know plenty of places around here you could set up shop and not be bothered.. Someone may eventually find you and force you to move, but doesn't that kind of come with the lifestyle?

Here's a map of all your choices:

Spoiler for places to live in the wild.. avoid the orangey part:

I’ve read Into the Wild and The Man Who Quit Money and found them both inspiring but pointing out that I’m probably not cut out for it doesn’t discredit my position.

Im not trying to discredit your position really. Just pointing out the opportunities that currently exist which meet your no money standard. You make it seem as though you dont have choices, but you do, you just dont like them anymore than your current situation.

Ftr, i like the idea of a no money system and even seriously looked in to kibbutz living and a secluded, live in, on call 24/7 animal preserve, but ultimately decided to pursue other things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by john denver (Post 1903019)

You were the one that brought up the "200,000 years that humans lived without money" as if this makes humans living in a complex society without money any more plausible. The fact is that they didn't have money because they lived in a very primitive state which didn't require it. That way of life still exists and remains open to you.

That's not to say a "no money system" isn't possible... I have no idea. But if anything is disingenuous it's suggesting that hunter gatherer tribes are any sort of "precedent" for this sort of technocratic communist utopia of yours. The devil really is in the details. Saying that both systems lack money is an accurate statement but the comparison ends there. The question is why they lack money. In one case, it's because the relative simplicity and small scale of the society doesn't require much complex trade, and what's more the relative scarcity of resources in said society prevents the kind of surplus of wealth that would warrant the creation of a currency in the first place. In the other scenario, it's precisely the supposed abundance of wealth that renders money obsolete. So they're basically the complete opposite of each other. And the possible implications are, as such, also very different.

In other words... we're dealing with uncharted territory. So the way hunter gatherer societies work might very well tell us absolutely nothing about the way your hypothetical utopia would work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by john denver (Post 1903023)

Try going to Africa or South America and joining a tribe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by john denver (Post 1903028)

Eh... I don't know if it's true that most do(I don't know either way) but I agree a lot of the big ones were govt funded. You know what gets us motivated to make these innovations more than anything else? War/fear the Nazis/Soviets/etc will get there first. Just funny to think about. If only we could frame global warming as a plot by the Chinese (hmmmm?) maybe we could get some govt funds for alternative energy research.

Far out, man.

Aw man, did I miss JWB again last night?

They seek him here, they seek him there...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart (Post 1903146)

They seek him here, they seek him there...

His clothes are loud, but never square.

That first quote is way better stated than anything I said. Good points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls (Post 1902765)

To be clear im not advocating for mom and pop stores, which seem to have become high price hipster shops (at least near me). Im talking about thrift stores, farmers markets, and other like shops that have competitive pricing. not to mention all the potential online shopping.

But like you said, you cant be bothered to visit 3 different stores. This is not an issue worth voting with your dollar over. For me, i dont have kids or want them, so i have a lot of free time to turn back on myself. You dont have to be filthy rich.

1/3 of your life you spend sleeping. Of the remaining 2/3, half of that is spent working. So if you can afford not to work, you basically double your waking hours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xurtio (Post 1903154)

1/3 of your life you spend sleeping.

Wow. I've slept for 167,900 hours!

I guess I should deduct a hundred or so from the good old speed and cocaine years.