Oriphiel

Fluff, Hawk, Polly, Rubber Soul, and I, are open to the idea of flipping a perma-ban, as shown in the poll.

Elph, Polly, Fluff, WWWP, and I, would like to see Sansa and/or JWB back, as shown in the discussion.

Anyone mentioned above, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

__________________
----------------------
|---Mic's Albums---|
----------------------
-----------------------------
|---Deafbox Industries---|
-----------------------------

Key

I stand corrected then. I haven't read the whole thread so idk what I missed. No need to correct you.

Neapolitan

Boo told me once, that Bungalow had a few bans flipped cause of Ethan. So it's not like there wasn't a precedent for this. But that was eons ago, and there was a changing of the guard in the mod cave since then. (I hate to say it but of all the members that got perma-banned Bungalow was the one I liked the least. In fact beside him, I can't think of a perma-banned member I really disliked.)

Just to be fair, the feeling I noticed from some mods are not very warm towards Sansa. Other than them I can't sense any major concerns coming from the general population of Music Banter. I don't know what the main concern of the objecting members are. I'm not sure whether these members are not fond of her or just want rules to be rules.

__________________

Lisnaholic

^ Was I doing that? Yes, I guess you have a point.

TBH most of what I said about the name of the ban was me being facetious. None the less, the mods have loads of ban options I presume; ban for six months, ban for five years, etc. If they give fair warning and then announce a permaban, I don't think it helps the MB community to dispute that call, unless there is clear evidence of unfairness. The discipline aspect of modding is not easy and I think they deserve our support in their decisions. Should we really ask them to reconsider arguments that were made years ago? If I remember correctly, that was what pushed mega-mod Urban into leaving, after years of actively contributing to MB.

^ Can't really argue with this statement, but I can ask, How many times? And how much does it benefit the community to do it again and again?

^ Sansa and JWB were both pretty divisive members. Are we really being reduced to a head-count of the pro- and contra- camps? How is that promoting the good of the community?

^ She could make some pretty nasty, unprovoked attacks and was the reason that sk left, if anyone still remembers him. In fact, this is something of a flaw in Oriphiel's head-counting approach: it doesn't take into account the members who are NOT here, thanks to Sansa and JWB.

__________________
"Am I enjoying this moment? I know of it and perhaps that is enough." - Sybille Bedford, 1953

Oriphiel

Even if the bans were 100% warranted at the time, people change and grow. You're looking at this purely from the perspective that they deserved the ban, therefore they should stay banned.

Perma-bans have been lifted before, like with Batlord, even though the mods had plenty of evidence of rule-breaking against him, and people have been offended and even quit because of his humor. The community, when it wants, has already shown that it has the power to choose who gets one last chance. And guess what? Anarchy didn't ensue. Droves of people didn't leave the forum. We all got a cool person back, and everyone made an effort to not be so ****ty to each other. In fact, virtually no major members have been perma-banned since Batlord came back.

If you want to know why Urban really left, then ask him yourself instead of guessing.

Again, you're going with the slippery slope fallacy.

I'm talking about one more chance, and only for the people that are still discussed and missed even years later.

Reduced? It's healthy to talk about these things, figure out where everyone stands, and establish and break down boundaries accordingly. If you feel you can't discuss this issue without being facetious, then hey, your loss.

We currently have divisive members that basically contribute more to music discussions than anyone else. Hawk in particular. Trying to tally up the pros, cons, and what-ifs of each member isn't really necessary, because you can't really say for certain who might inspire other people to stay or go. All you can say is who you like, and who you don't like. I like Sansa and JWB, and I think they should have another go, and if they botch it, they'll be immediately banned, and we'll know for sure that they just don't mix with the rest of MB. It's such a simple and utterly risk-free situation, I seriously don't understand why you and TH find it so perplexing.


So have Hawk, Frown, and Batlord. They've all pushed people to leave. Pet_Sounds and rubber_soul both quit specifically because of how Frown and Hawk talked to rubber_soul, and it's only quite recently that soul decided to try again. Roxy has also left many times because of Frown's scrutiny of her politics. Batty and the others making rape jokes pushed Kiiii to go on his recent hiatus. But would you really be happy if Frown, Hawk, and Batty got the axe?

How about instead of people feeling the need to fly off at the first hint of a hurt butt, people talk about the things/members that are bothering them? This is the approach that MB currently has. Mods don't just ban people and tell others to get over it anymore. There's more of an effort to discuss things, and get people to be civil to each other without having to resort to exile. Urban would have banned Hawk, Chula, and Frown for their constant fighting and personal attacks. Exo pushed us to talk about it, to get over our problems ourselves, only threatening to start banning if things carried on.

I say we give Sansa and JWB one last chance, and if people take issue with them, we can just discuss it like adults instead of being reactionary.

__________________
----------------------
|---Mic's Albums---|
----------------------
-----------------------------
|---Deafbox Industries---|
-----------------------------

Cuthbert

These are good points, which nobody is gonna be able to argue against.