2020 US Election Thread

[The Batlord]

With a fedora.

[Anteater]

I'm looking forward to kowtowing to our neoliberal overlords once more. A toast to eight years of hairy legs that turn blonde in the sun!

[Lisnaholic]

Originally Posted by Anteater

I'm looking forward to kowtowing to our neoliberal overlords once more. A toast to eight years of hairy legs that turn blonde in the sun!

"kowtowing to overlords" is an odd way of describing things isn't it? Have Americans, I wonder, been "kowtowing to Republican overlords" these last 4 years?

For myself, I'm looking forward to seeing a President who is capable of acknowledging the disasters occurring on his watch:-

1. A massive security hack from Russia: "The attack unfortunately represents a broad and successful espionage-based assault on both the confidential information of the U.S. Government and the tech tools used by firms to protect them," : No comment from Trump.
2. A 9/11 size death toll from covid every day for over a week now: No comment from Trump.
3. Federal Government is cutting next week's vaccine roll-out by 30%, although Pfizer "have millions more doses sitting in our warehouse... but we have not received any shipping instructions.": No comment from Trump.

Also looking forward to a genuine "draining of the swamp" when Trump's dubious gang is replaced. Number of Indictments, I suppose, is one way to measure a swamp; here are the number of politicians indicted in recent admins, listed according to the presidents they were affiliated to:
Nixon - 28 : Reagan - 33 : Trump - 8 ( 9 if we were to add in that famous "unindicted co-conspirator")
Carter - 0 : Clinton - 2 ; Obama - 0

Sources: https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...trump-reagan-/ and https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN25G1YU

[Anteater]

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

"kowtowing to overlords" is an odd way of describing things isn't it? Have Americans, I wonder, been "kowtowing to Republican overlords" these last 4 years?

Nah. Trump was a reaction to eight years of Obama's clinton-esque neoliberalism but without the dotcom boom to smooth over things conservatives didn't like. And what Biden's win actually shows us is that any Democrat who was on the stage last year could have gotten the nomination and likely won the presidency this time because of the sheer levels of turnout. Which means that if people were smarter overall, we'd have President Sanders instead. So now things are going back to the status quo that led us to Trump in the first place. Kanye 2024 yasssssss.

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

For myself, I'm looking forward to seeing a President who is capable of acknowledging the disasters occurring on his watch:-

1. A massive security hack from Russia: "The attack unfortunately represents a broad and successful espionage-based assault on both the confidential information of the U.S. Government and the tech tools used by firms to protect them," : No comment from Trump.
2. A 9/11 size death toll from covid every day for over a week now: No comment from Trump.
3. Federal Government is cutting next week's vaccine roll-out by 30%, although Pfizer "have millions more doses sitting in our warehouse... but we have not received any shipping instructions.": No comment from Trump.

1. Ok? Russia and China are always hacking us or trying to undermine the U.S. in some form or fashion. Just because the news isn't always talking about it doesn't mean it hasn't been happening for a long time. I'm frankly surprised it was reported at all, seeing as there's zero benefit for that kind of information to become public.

2. Why would you expect Trump to be commenting on the deaths when it doesn't solve anything one way or the other? That's not how he thinks: any acknowledgement of weakness is just more ammo for his detractors. There's zero merit in him commenting on it when Americans basically do whatever the hell they want regardless of what the government says. Whether they want to go and protest or eat out at fancy restaurants...we're all our own worst enemy.

3. It appears that you don't have the correct story or perhaps your information is outdated. https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...hipment-delays

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

Also looking forward to a genuine "draining of the swamp" when Trump's dubious gang is replaced. Number of Indictments, I suppose, is one way to measure a swamp; here are the number of politicians indicted in recent admins, listed according to the presidents they were affiliated to:
Nixon - 28 : Reagan - 33 : Trump - 8 ( 9 if we were to add in that famous "unindicted co-conspirator")
Carter - 0 : Clinton - 2 ; Obama - 0

Sources: https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...trump-reagan-/ and https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN25G1YU

So you have some grifters who are bad at hiding their dirty laundry and others that do a better job at minimizing scrutiny because they're better at lying to us? Got it, thanks.

[Exo]

Originally Posted by Anteater

Which means that if people were smarter overall, we'd have President Sanders instead.

Americans basically do whatever the hell they want regardless of what the government says. Whether they want to go and protest or eat out at fancy restaurants...we're all our own worst enemy.

Agreed.

[Lisnaholic]

Originally Posted by Anteater

Nah. Trump was a reaction to eight years of Obama's clinton-esque neoliberalism but without the dotcom boom to smooth over things conservatives didn't like. And what Biden's win actually shows us is that any Democrat who was on the stage last year could have gotten the nomination and likely won the presidency this time because of the sheer levels of turnout. Which means that if people were smarter overall, we'd have President Sanders instead. So now things are going back to the status quo that led us to Trump in the first place. Kanye 2024 yasssssss.

High level of turnout makes a Dem win more likely; is that what you' re saying in the bold bit? It seems like you're belittling Biden's win by saying, "That's just because he's the head of the party that's more popular."

1. Ok? Russia and China are always hacking us or trying to undermine the U.S. in some form or fashion. Just because the news isn't always talking about it doesn't mean it hasn't been happening for a long time. I'm frankly surprised it was reported at all, seeing as there's zero benefit for that kind of information to become public.

I think there is great benefit in having a well-informed public; an ideal shared by everyone who ever picked up a newspaper or watched a news broadcast. As you point out, hacking prob goes on all the time; this story has hit the headlines because of how serious it is. Lucky you weren't a reporter when the Titanic sank, Anteater: "The public don't need to know about this; boats sink all the time."

2. Why would you expect Trump to be commenting on the deaths when it doesn't solve anything one way or the other? That's not how he thinks: any acknowledgement of weakness is just more ammo for his detractors.
There's zero merit in him commenting on it when Americans basically do whatever the hell they want regardless of what the government says. Whether they want to go and protest or eat out at fancy restaurants...we're all our own worst enemy.

Prior to Trump, presidents were labelled as "Healer in Chief", I think, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who respond to a kind word from a President even though, as you say, "it doesn't solve anything one way or the other". There are plenty of other motives for speaking beyond "solving things".
At one level, the idea in bold is true, on the other hand, it's not; people do listen to the government - especially when there is clear, consistent messaging. One reason why or one example of Americans are doing what the Hell they want is on the issue of masks: a bewildering lack of direction, so people do what they want. An example of consistant messaging: smoking damages your health. Not everyone, but plenty of people have followed the government's advice on that.

3. It appears that you don't have the correct story or perhaps your information is outdated. https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...hipment-delays

Why won't a news story ever stay simple? Thanks for the article, Anteater.

So you have some grifters who are bad at hiding their dirty laundry and others that do a better job at minimizing scrutiny because they're better at lying to us? Got it, thanks.

I found this comment a little troubling. It seems to be an exercise in Conspiracy Theory 101: the statistics don't support my belief, therefore the truth has been hidden.
Here's another example: Stats on genecide of Jews during WWII:
Germany under Hitler: approx 6 million killed
England under Churchill: approx 0 killed
Following your logic, we should therefore conclude that Churchill was better at hiding his policy of Jewish genecide than Hitler.
In one sentence, you take us from facts to fallacy; what's alarming is just how easy and how popular this kind of argument has become.

[Anteater]

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

High level of turnout makes a Dem win more likely; is that what you' re saying in the bold bit? It seems like you're belittling Biden's win by saying, "That's just because he's the head of the party that's more popular."

Yep, I'm belittling him. And I stand by it.

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

I think there is great benefit in having a well-informed public; an ideal shared by everyone who ever picked up a newspaper or watched a news broadcast. As you point out, hacking prob goes on all the time; this story has hit the headlines because of how serious it is. Lucky you weren't a reporter when the Titanic sank, Anteater: "The public don't need to know about this; boats sink all the time."

If you actually read the story though, it doesn't appear to be as serious as they made it out to be. In fact, it looks like a giant ???. "We have major security issues in all our departments and it "appears" they got into our systems and then did nothing for 8 months". Comparing that to the Titanic sinking is laughable.

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

Prior to Trump, presidents were labelled as "Healer in Chief", I think, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who respond to a kind word from a President even though, as you say, "it doesn't solve anything one way or the other". There are plenty of other motives for speaking beyond "solving things".

At one level, the idea in bold is true, on the other hand, it's not; people do listen to the government - especially when there is clear, consistent messaging. One reason why or one example of Americans are doing what the Hell they want is on the issue of masks: a bewildering lack of direction, so people do what they want. An example of consistant messaging: smoking damages your health. Not everyone, but plenty of people have followed the government's advice on that.

1. Leaders can say all the nice things they want. Trump is despicable to most people but guess what? He's the only guy in the room advocating for 2k a month to every American and both Repubs and Democrats don't seem to give a ****. When did Obama ever advocate for money going out to the average American back in 2009 after the housing crash? Never. He said nice things on T.V. but was ultimately trash.

2. If all that's true, then why do so many Americans have a fundamental distrust in government that spans multiple generations now? This isn't limited to minorities or any specific group either - the JFK assassination, 9/11 conspiracy theories, "the moon landing was faked" etc. are all things that just don't seem to die.

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

I found this comment a little troubling. It seems to be an exercise in Conspiracy Theory 101: the statistics don't support my belief, therefore the truth has been hidden.
Here's another example: Stats on genecide of Jews during WWII:
Germany under Hitler: approx 6 million killed
England under Churchill: approx 0 killed
Following your logic, we should therefore conclude that Churchill was better at hiding his policy of Jewish genecide than Hitler.
In one sentence, you take us from facts to fallacy; what's alarming is just how easy and how popular this kind of argument has become.

OH's response to you on this was already perfect, so I don't have anything else to add to it.

[OccultHawk]

Americans basically do whatever the hell they want regardless of what the government says. Whether they want to go and protest or eat out at fancy restaurants...we're all our own worst enemy.

Church

[Anteater]

Thoughts on this OH?

Yahoo News - White House aides reportedly stepped in to keep Trump from calling for $2,000 stimulus checks, fearing it could torpedo relief negotiations

[OccultHawk]

Originally Posted by Anteater

Thoughts on this OH?

Yahoo News - White House aides reportedly stepped in to keep Trump from calling for $2,000 stimulus checks, fearing it could torpedo relief negotiations

It’s pretty ****ing sad when Trump is the best dude in the room.

None of that ****ing aid to small businesses and the states and local communities **** is going to help me.

Idgaf that they’re not sending money to the states. Like the state of Florida gives a **** if I live or die. The entire bailout means nothing to me except the direct check. That last one was the only good thing the government has ever done for me my entire life.

Trump is a nazi **** but the real far left, not neoliberal identity politics leftists but real deep economic Marxist / Anarchist leftist who understand it’s all money and nothing but money and money and that’s it the rest is bull**** - the real anarcho-left missed a great opportunity to turn Trump into a Mao. You can get anything from a narcissist by massaging their egos. Trump has no political allegiance. He was putty in our hands. The greatest weapon we ever had and we blew it.