2020 US Election Thread

[TheBig3]

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

Is it my imagination, or do people in the US have the attitude that a third party is unthinkable?

Generally yes because third party candidates don't have wildly different positions on most of the issues. It tends to be on ONE issue and the rest are fairly comparable. Ross Perot being the only exception really. But what you've got now is a group of people thinking that core things are wrong.

The Trump Wing believes in Protectionism, Isolationism, and the more extreme wing of them thinks the Constitution can't work in multicultural nation. Hence the "muh constitution" memes.

Yep, they are becoming a party that never do their homework. I was reminded of this today, watching a documentary about the upcoming environmental disaster of California's drought: 21 years of water shortage so far, and set to get worse this year. Failing crops, cattle that can't be maintained: it'll take extraordinary measures to avoid disaster, but are the GOP investigating solutions? No, they are preparing their next speeches about space lasers and planning to block infrastructure spending.

Congress is only allowed to do things in the United States when a crisis happens. I don't blame them, honestly, I blame the voters. A proactive Congress would be voted out immediately.

[Lisnaholic]

Originally Posted by TheBig3

Generally yes because third party candidates don't have wildly different positions on most of the issues. It tends to be on ONE issue and the rest are fairly comparable. Ross Perot being the only exception really. But what you've got now is a group of people thinking that core things are wrong.

Yes, with Liz Cheney, it may look like a one-issue difference she had about Trump's culpability, but that difference turns into a chasm wide enough to justify forming a new party I would've thought:
Liz Cheney's GOP: disown Trump, fiscally conservative, responding to reality
Actual GOP: chained to Trump, no consistent fiscal policy, chasing election fraud and other conspiracy theories

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by TheBig3

The Trump Wing believes in Protectionism, Isolationism, and the more extreme wing of them thinks the Constitution can't work in multicultural nation. Hence the "muh constitution" memes.

Omg do you actually think that's what Trumpism is about? It's about cheap emotional manipulation to give people easy enemies to latch onto the same as any fascist movement. The specifics are only as relevant as they are exploitable even if the specifics are in some way actually relevant and speak to real problems. Protectionism speaks to Trump voters because China provides an easy villain even if deindustrialization is a real problem affecting their lives.

[Lucem Ferre]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Omg do you actually think that's what Trumpism is about? It's about cheap emotional manipulation to give people easy enemies to latch onto the same as any fascist movement. The specifics are only as relevant as they are exploitable even if the specifics are in some way actually relevant and speak to real problems. Protectionism speaks to Trump voters because China provides an easy villain even if deindustrialization is a real problem affecting their lives.

Yeah, that's how they got a typically anti-Semitic base that interchangeably uses Zionism with Judaism to justify their anti-Semitism into siding with Israel even using their conflation of Zionism with Judaism to call people who criticize Israel anti-Semitic.

[Neapolitan]

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

Is it my imagination, or do people in the US have the attitude that a third party is unthinkable?

There are parties other than Democrats and Republicans. eg Green Party, Libertarian Party

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

Yep, they are becoming a party that never do their homework. I was reminded of this today, watching a documentary about the upcoming environmental disaster of California's drought: 21 years of water shortage so far, and set to get worse this year. Failing crops, cattle that can't be maintained: it'll take extraordinary measures to avoid disaster, but are the GOP investigating solutions? No, they are preparing their next speeches about space lasers and planning to block infrastructure spending.

I had to check that. I came across an article, it was posted a few years ago. It did mention CA Republicans had a plan, it passed the state's legislation but was stop in the (state) senate.

[Lisnaholic]

Thanks for the fact checks, Neapolitan!

I wonder when the Californian Republicans had a plan? I hope it's clear that my criticisms of the Republican party are mainly about how it is today. How it was in the past, or how it is at the state level is outside my limited area of knowledge. (Except when Texas pulls a stunt like it is presently trying, to make voting unnecessarily difficult.)

[Neapolitan]

As far as I could ascertain the paln was water for farms. About a month ago (back in April) Republicans were asking for statewide emergency, not just a two county emergency the governor called. Then ~ 19 days later he called for a 41 county emergency. What happen since then I am not sure.

[The Batlord]

You know you can be a filthy Marxist while still having realistic ideas about what's politically possible right? You don't have to turn into a reactionary liberal who'll give a Republican a hand job just to spite the Left.

[TheBig3]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

You know you can be a filthy Marxist while still having realistic ideas about what's politically possible right? You don't have to turn into a reactionary liberal who'll give a Republican a hand job just to spite the Left.

Only after Lenin called Leftist Marxism an infantile disorder. But that's not what I'm taking issue with. It's the problem of every political comment landing squarely between a "joke" and snark. Living in this sort of thought-free twilight where if you're ever called out on it you can cower behind it being a joke and then accuse me of being a reactionary liberal.

If someone is going to be a far-left radical, I don't have an issue with that. And if they're sincere in their positions, and thoughtful about things, I'd ever respect them. I just think most Americans spend more time considering what to eat for lunch than what our national policies should be.

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by TheBig3

Only after Lenin called Leftist Marxism an infantile disorder. But that's not what I'm taking issue with. It's the problem of every political comment landing squarely between a "joke" and snark. Living in this sort of thought-free twilight where if you're ever called out on it you can cower behind it being a joke and then accuse me of being a reactionary liberal.

I'm honestly not entirely sure what you're referencing here. I'm not on the same side as a weird fascist Leninist like OccultHawk who supports ethnostates and Muslim genocide cause his rightwing beliefs are abhorrent and his leftwing beliefs are LARPing nonsense that rejects anything that isn't violent revolution regardless of the outcome. I don't even know what Frownland ultimately believes cause he's too ironic to ever fully articulate his beliefs. And elphenor is a political fashionista who likes whatever politics his favorite bands like. For myself I just take issue with your siding with electable Democrats seemingly without criticism.

I mean I can understand voting for Biden as opposed to voting for Trump but as far as treating Biden as if he's The Guy as opposed to just the least bad capitalist neoliberal we got the chance to vote for I simply can't understand that.

Like he's probable been the best president we've had in decades but the bar is so low I'm thinking chugging bleach in honor of our last president.

If someone is going to be a far-left radical, I don't have an issue with that. And if they're sincere in their positions, and thoughtful about things, I'd ever respect them. I just think most Americans spend more time considering what to eat for lunch than what our national policies should be.

Well of course the American populace is either drinking some form of poisoned Flavor-Aid or completely disengaged. The concept of class solidarity is purely academic and even if you're hoping that can be sidestepped by an authoritarian vanguard leftist party you're still praying for a miracle.

I don't think anyone here expects anything whatsoever beyond possibly a civil war caused by climate change catastrophe leading to a leftist insurgency dropping Apple store drone bomblets on their government and fascist enemies because we're all fundamentally black pilled.

Personally the only things I hope for is a slowly, slowly evolving labor movement building in response to the failure of neoliberalism and hopefully co-ops introducing the concept of workplace democracy to a wider.populace but I'm pretty sure I was born at least one generation too early to see anything meaningful on those fronts.