What Didn’t President Biden Do Now?

jadis · 08-27-2021, 07:48 PM

Not arguing with the second bit but yes, essentially. The level of detail you can go into sitting at the WH is limited even if your cognitive abilities aren't in a state of terminal decline, as seems to be the case with Biden.

~~jwb~~ · 08-27-2021, 07:52 PM

Saying the level of detail is limited seems like an intentionally vague assertion. You're saying the executive office has no sway whatsoever over things like how quickly we withdraw etc? Give me a source for where you are getting this from.

The Batlord · 08-27-2021, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

sounds like a false dichotomy

You think the way this withdrawal was executed seems close to the best case scenario of what could have happened? Cause to me it seems much closer to a worst case. Seems completely botched even if the general idea of "withdrawing" was worth pursuing there's no reason to assume that what we are watching right now is actually a well thought out execution of that move. Seems like the intelligence was severely flawed and quite frankly we got caught with our pants down as we are desperately trying to flee the country while still sending reinforcements to try to stop the bleeding as we flee and completely abandon everyone stuck there.

I think there was never going to be a good way to pull out. 20 years and the Afghan President is on a plane with a suitcase full of cash as soon as the announcement is made, "his" generals are warlords who inflate the numbers of their forces to squeeze us for more cash, and their existing soldiers may or may not have bullets and shoes. The country existed on paper at best. There was no way to pull out that didn't end in collapse.

And once the news cycle finds its next chew toy this will be forgotten and a year from now "Biden got us out of Afghanistan but it kinda sucked" will be a poor talking point in the mid-terms.

jadis · 08-27-2021, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

You're saying the executive office has no sway whatsoever over things like how quickly we withdraw etc?

Of course not. But there's always some room for maneuvering in an operation this vast.

We won't know the details until credible book-length accounts come out.

~~jwb~~ · 08-27-2021, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadis

Of course not. But there's always some room for maneuvering in an operation this vast.

We won't know the details until credible book-length accounts come out.

So then there is also from for making the "right" (assuming you believe it is right) decision to end the occupation while still failing in the planning and execution of actually following through on that decision... Which seeing how ****ed things have been seems not only like a possibility but a likely one at that..

~~jwb~~ · 08-27-2021, 09:39 PM

Fine as in he executed it well or just fine as in nobody will eventually care about how bad he ****ed up?

rubber soul · 08-28-2021, 06:08 AM

Wasn't it Donald Trump that had started the pull out to begin with? But I guess he's totally blameless in all this. After all, he wouldn't have done anything ridiculous like pull the troops out of Syria leaving the Kurds sitting ducks for the Turks, right?

PS- How many people actually remember that? I'm with Batty on this one.

The Batlord · 08-28-2021, 06:22 AM

I don't think he did pull troops out of Syria. I think he just moved them to another part of Syria.

rubber soul · 08-28-2021, 07:08 AM

He pulled most of them out of Northern Syria after some deal with Erdogan. The point is though, and I think it was a point you're making with Biden, is that everyone forgot about it in a week and it was time for the next crisis. If Biden is doomed to be a one-term President, it won't be over Afghanistan.

SGR · 08-28-2021, 07:20 AM

I've got respect for the Biden administration for finally getting this done, one way or another. Not that they had a ton of choice with Trump's agreement with the Taliban, but still.

Obama and Trump both kicked the can down the road.

Our entire time there has been a disaster though. It's unfortunate the way that things are shaking out with the violence, the death, and the Taliban regaining control. We should have never been there.

I'm not convinced that this pull out would've been any better with a different president/administration. I kinda agree with jadis, I think the military brass and generals dragged their feet and executed this incompetently because they didn't want to do this. Biden, of course, can't really come out and criticize/blame his generals in front of the public though. Get out, once and for all, and let the Taliban and ISIS(-K) blow each other up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

fine as in holy **** I do not care

^ 90% of Americans about anything foreign policy related. Give Biden 2 months max, reap some rewards from legislative success or vaccine success and his approval rating will recover and no one will care any more. Sad, unfortunate, but true.

08-27-2021, 07:48 PM	#121 (permalink)
jadis Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: dont ask Posts: 1,232	Not arguing with the second bit but yes, essentially. The level of detail you can go into sitting at the WH is limited even if your cognitive abilities aren't in a state of terminal decline, as seems to be the case with Biden.

08-27-2021, 07:52 PM	#122 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Saying the level of detail is limited seems like an intentionally vague assertion. You're saying the executive office has no sway whatsoever over things like how quickly we withdraw etc? Give me a source for where you are getting this from.

08-27-2021, 09:39 PM	#126 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Fine as in he executed it well or just fine as in nobody will eventually care about how bad he ****ed up?