ribbons

There are varying degrees of selfishness, and while selfishness does not always produce evil, it is always a component of evil. As such selfishness is imo the universal underlying root of all evil.

SGR

So what you're saying is you want to debate determinism vs. free will?

Guybrush

I generally think that how morally good or bad an action is depends on the consequences in terms of joy / suffering rather than what one believes. If you did something and everyone but you think you're evil, I guess the chances are higher that you did something that caused significantly more suffering than joy. It's an indication perhaps, though no guarantee.

I think I have an okay handle on it, having studied biology.

The most basic human drives and behaviours are generally explainable by concepts we know like kin selection and reciprocality. If you wanna get into weird altruism, ants is where it's at (like it says in your sig).

__________________
Something Completely Different

Trollheart

Nah, I'm just pointing out that animals have no free will, so to equate what they do as a natural process of their lives with what we can do (or not do) because we choose to is, what, a false tooth? No, equivalency? Something like that anyway. Animals can't be evil as they haven't the choice we have to decide to be. They may look evil or how they kill others, or even humans, may seem evil, but it can't be taken to be evil.

__________________
Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

Guybrush

Certainly, but selfishness is still something that's going to shape all humans' behaviour.

__________________
Something Completely Different

Frownland

Is selfishness a biological factor?

Not to mention that evolutionary psychology anthropomorphizes outcome, is unfalsifiable, promotes hierarchy, flattens diverse factors to make them traceable, presumes correlation as cause, and is flat out racist yo.

Certainly interesting as a thought experiment but should in no way be treated as scientific.

__________________

Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Carpe Mortem

I don't really believe in evil. I believe in broken beings, unevolved beings, and selfish beings, all with their own unique roots for less than ideal behavior... but what the hell is 'evil' anyways?

Editing to add - rape, child murder, etc.... generally considered evil but after lurking the other comments I think it's important not to make sweeping philosophical declarations that exclude our animal brethren. Who very much enjoy rape and child murder, and we don't judge them for it.

__________________

Trollheart

Jesus on a pogo stick! Carpe! Welcome back!

__________________
Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

jwb

ok so then if you are using that lens for example (the consequentialist pov) then don't you agree that someone could do something that leads to more suffering without necessarily being motivated by what we describe as selfishness?

I also think it's important we consider what we mean by selfishness because some people (not sure if you are one) talk about all human behavior as being motivated by selfishness some way some how, even apparent altruism. So maybe you could also clarify your terms before answering the question above.

The Batlord

So is slavery evil now but not back in the day? I mean if it's that subjective even on a societal scale then is it even useful as a concept you can rely on, or is it more like a statue where you have to chisel away only the correct bits of stone to reveal a correct conception of evil?

__________________