Definitely some truth in that.

Left: Tendency to seek external solutions to problems
Right: Tendency to seek internal solutions to problems

I suppose the other thing with the self-help manosphere stuff is that, given the platforms these messages are spread on (Youtube, TikTok, etc.), it's all driven by attention and clicks. So in general, the cigar smoking ex-kickboxer who thinks women should be on leashes is going to be more successful than someone giving valuable, but more tame advice and perspective.

to me it's not just the existence of a market, that market exists as a reflection of real needs and problems that otherwise go unaddressed. I'm not saying the left necessarily needs to try to corner the market if they are just inherently uninterested in doing so but then the lamentations of how young men gravitate to self help types on the other side seems all the more impotent.

Like I said that isn't unique to self help though. That's true in general that superficial clicks and views drive almost all online discourse. Guys like Hasan are at the top of the heirarchy in the streaming world not because of his intellect but because of aesthetics and dumbed down content.

The left never shuts up about the problems that create dysfunctional desires like these, those discussions just don't appeal to the get rich quick dynamic that the insecurity market demands, so scam artists appealing to that desire will rise to the top of that pyramid. These grifts only bolster the grift without solving the issues, so countergrifting would be similarly useless.

Of course it's whack-a-mole but if the moles are convincing people to shoot up pizza restaurants and gay bars then it's insane not to whack them. Should something more be done? Does Tucker Carlson make banning Alex Jones from social media ineffective? Is there an entire media ecosystem that is too big and entrenched to be cancellable?

Yes. Obviously.

That doesn't make it pointless to step on a cockroach when you see it. That just means it's pointless if it isn't just a start.

And just like Joel Osteen and Amway are bigger, more influential, and more insidious than Andrew Tate that doesn't mean you should let them all run rampant, that means they all deserve attention. The libs who are only now starting to notice the scope of the problem just need to catch up and stop living in the 90s.

Jordan Peterson telling you to pull your pants up is a hopeless message. The problems of men in the modern age are bigger than individual responsibility can handle and that **** is a bandaid.

Why are so many men so socially isolated? Well part of the reason might be car culture turning cities into places that aren't safe for children to roam and where there's no place to roam in the first place so they just stay inside and play video games. The left might suggest urban planning to create walkable cities.

Why are so many men feeling emasculated? Well part of the reason might be the alienating nature of the modern workplace where you're a faceless cog in a machine fantasizing about earlier, manlier work where you feel more fulfilled and in control of your labor. The left might suggest labor organizing both to gain power in the workplace and the sense of fulfillment from connection with your fellow workers in a cooperative project.

Why are so many men feeling their traditional place in the world being threatened by changing gender dynamics? Well part of the reason might be that they viewed their place on top as a privilege that is being taken away. The left might suggest that this privilege was always harmful to all parties and that it would be liberating for men to shed the burden a rigid stereotype of what men are supposed to be.

And on and on and on cause men's issues are as complex and deeply entrenched as any other problem faced by society, and deciding that not sitting up straight and not working hard enough are the real problem is a coping mechanism to bring everything that can be so hard to conceptualize down to a simpler conceptual level that is easier to wrap your head around. Listening to Jordan Peterson might actually help you personally, but it isn't going to do anything to change the conditions that put men in the position they are in. The left isn't perfect by any means but they are actually trying to grapple with those conditions that Peterson and Tate ignore.

Dennis on It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia proved that one to be true. Unfortunately for him, it also means he can get egged.

I would like to know whether men on MB feel disenfranchised and feel they need help from a creator to build their confidence, self esteem and the inflow of ideas from said creator? Or do you look up self help books or information? You're under no obligation to answer this, perhaps you could private message me and we can chat together about it. I'm 35 years old, so have some experience going through exactly what I asked above.

This is interesting for me because I am a librarian and we can reach out to young people using this for context so I can help youth 11+ to learn more about themselves, maybe help them create a budget and careers advisory. It will be helpful for me to set up events/workshops to help boys and men.

I think personally I feel disenfranchised. Us aliens from planet Zrag XIX have had to deal with too much... uh, do you hear the sound of helicopters? Gotta go!
:D

Seriously, no. I do not get it. I've never felt oppressed or disenfranchised or disembowelled or discombulated by society. Society can go **** itself. I am great. I know I'm great. All bow before me. That's healthy.

I don't think I'm disenfranchised. Some work policies are irritating, especially with regards to promotion. I'm hearing through the grapevine that managers will soon be told to hire women and minorities first. If they're more qualified than me, I have no problem with that.

If I'm in need of help or advice, I seek out friends and family. I know enough people who will kick me in the ass when needed.

No, but I'm almost 40. And I think I probably did at some point. I got lucky though, I had a lot of good role models and mentors in life. Right place, right time I guess. My parents weren't well-connected or invested in my advancement.

As a younger person I felt like everyone knew the rules and how things worked, and I just wasn't let in on the secret. Mentors, people to talk to, having a group of friends and hobbies helps a great deal. I don't know if the library is going to reach the people we're talking about here. These folks generally aren't readers and they're pretty angry. They need direction more than anything.

Years ago I read about an Elephant Refuge in Northwestern Africa that had saved mother elephants and their children from poachers/zoos/etc. But when the young males hit puberty, they were a problem. Harassing females, destroying signs at the sanctuary. In the end, the people running the place introduced a pack of mature male elephants and it established order and stability overall. When you're a 16-24 year old male, you kind just want to **** and burn things. You need someone around to you trust to say "you're going to give yourself a lot of problems if you do that."

That's a good point. I knew a lot of people like that. You're right, those people now probably need more direction than a lecture. I'm no expert. I know that if I were in their position when I was young, I'd prefer direction.

I do my best with the little black book for daily motivation and inspiration;
https://www.hazeldenbettyford.org/th...ur-hours-a-day

Gary Vee gives out great content to share with others since he's so positive. I don't feel disenfranchised but Gary Vee is probably the person who inspires me the most. He doesn't sell courses like this Andrew Tate dude, but Gary is an author and just an entrepreneur I look up to.
https://twitter.com/garyvee

I don't feel disenfranchised personally

But there are men that I know that probably grew up expecting to be the Lord and leader of his family, especially since they knew they likely wouldn't be in the workplace. My cousin was something of a sexual animal in his day; it never seemed to dawn on him that sleeping with women he didn't even know was somehow wrong (he was engaged to be married at the time). Anyway, I grew up in the seventies and the expectation was that things would still be like Leave It To Beaver even as the changes like Women's lib were all around us.

So, men, older men especially, may feel emasculated simply because of the expectation that it was supposed to be their way or the highway, at least on the homefront.

https://youtu.be/6LwdbVHBTFc



No idea why this is blocked, but I'm watching it in the U.S.

It's How The Andrew Tate Scam Actually Works by How Money Works

It's amazing how many scams there are online. You can take almost anything, put in the word scam at the end, and find a ton of hits on google.

Don't think it's blocked, just age restricted. That's what I'm seeing anyway.

OK sorry I'm not sure how to interpret this other than that you are saying "don't worry, this is only the beginning, we will hopefully silence many more people in the future and hopefully Joel Olsteen makes the list!"

You can call it lib **** or edgy teenage **** all you want, that's just not the world I want to live in. If pursuing your worldview means you have to baby people and paternalistically monitor what ideas they engage with then I simply don't care to pursue it.

Like there are so many countless religions and conspiracy theories that I believe are unhinged from reality and even potentially harmful but I do like the idea of pluralism not because I have faith the best ideas always win out but because it seems like people should be allowed to decide for themselves what to believe.

This goes back to individual vs systematic thinking. I'm not denying the use in advocating for xyz policy to address issues on a societal basis, but that is a long game. That's not the kind of thing you can really offer as any sort of solace or advice to an individual who is struggling here and now. To them, they have limited ways to meaningfully address their situation, and voting and waiting for political change is about at the bottom of the list in terms of immediate efficacy.

So no, you're just wrong. Bootstraps ideology is flawed when speaking about creating a systemic policy but when it comes to trying to improve your life at all you are only in control of what choices you make and those choices will honestly have more of a tangible effect than any potential means of political advocacy.

Young men can't improve their own lives based on new information?

There's no such thing as a bitchin' carrot cake.

Why take a sweet delicious dessert and then ruin it with vegetables? And cream cheese frosting is basically the bottom tier of frostings.

We should avoid coddling the public who can't think beyond media representations (because they're babies ofc) by paying for and mandating distribution of those who are drawn to the media because of its profitability. Then everyone can pick their beliefs in the same way you might pick barbecue lays over cheetos because life is better when everything is commoditized. At least we wouldn't be babies.

The left promotes self care, just usually not as a vessel for their ideology. If your barometer is flawed advice then you're just asking for more of it.

This is the most offensive take shared in this thread so far

Agreed. Cream cheese is basically the nectar of the Gods.

The only thing worse than carrot cake is any dessert with coconut in it. Just disgusting. Vile. A sacrilege on all delectable desserts good and holy.

I'm not a fan of coconut except coconut water. That sh*t good. Mounds bar? F*ck outta here.

I'm good with coconut milk in my pina coladas, but basically nothing except for that.

It's not the flavor that puts me off, it's that disgusting coconut shaving texture.

all true and brave statements

Carrot cake is too mid to really hate but whoever likes coconut got tricked.

Alright you need get Alex Jones screaming about FEMA camps out of your head. I don't know what got Tate banned but I'm guessing it was TOS violations. I don't remember what got Jones banned but from defaming the parents of dead children and edging his listeners towards white supremacist violence I'm sure there was ample reason to ban him too (and from the state of his finances coming out in court he may have been doing some fraud as well).

I don't know all that much about Joel Osteen but if he has anything in common with other televangelist grifters then there's probably some kind of financial fraud going on that gets swept under the rug for political reasons. Take away his church's tax exempt status or throw him in jail if there's enough to nail him. If not then I suppose we just have to do some good old fashioned leftism and burn do- I mean improve people's lives so maybe the misery of existing doesn't turn them to grifters for solace.

Amway have already gone to court over being an MLM but got off presumably because they give millions to the Republican Party and have direct connections to several Congress members.

You don't need to black bag any of these people. They crime basically out in the open. Unless you just want people to crime with impunity?


Ah so activism and organizing are too difficult and long term. You want the instant gratification of hard work and self improvement. Well, you know there are shelves upon shelves of self-help books going back decades that don't involve right wing propaganda and rampant misogyny. Well there are some at least.

100% agree

Cream cheese blows! It's the worst. The worst, Jerry.

**** outta here. Cream cheese frosting is like crack.

Coconut is vastly better than cream cheese. I'm disappointed if I go to the Carribean and can't get fresh coconut. It's everywhere. How hard it is it to put a few, all chopped up, at the buffet table?

Coconut cream pie is better than carrot cake, every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

I'm weird about textures too. It's one reason I think cream cheese is awful.

Musicbanter: Our collective cholesterol will kill a horse

Well maybe you can explain what you meant by its only the beginning and they all deserve attention. In response to me saying you're just playing whack a mole. I think the commitment there is pretty clear my friend.

The bottom line is you think silencing whoever you deem to be harmful is somehow protecting the public from their harmful influence but not only do I think this is largely a convenient excuse to censor political adversaries and pariahs, I also just don't care to censor them even if they are somewhat harmful.

But if you are just going to say Alex Jones and Tate are just exceptional criminals who deserve special attention instead of "just the beginning" of what I could only assume would be a lengthy purge, then fine. But I don't believe you. I think you're trying to make them sound exceptional to help your argument, but that's not really where you draw the line. You would cheer the same fate for anyone who you thought was politically harmful in any way. Which includes virtually anyone on the right and maybe even some libs. Am I wrong in making this assumption about you?




that's not quite what I said

Political action is long term in the sense of that's the way you organize to try to change society as a whole... which is just naturally much more difficult than doing anything about your own life.

Those measures that you can usually take to improve your life are often not at all that short term either. Just more so than a political movement is.

I mean communists aren't exactly having a hard time getting in on the action so what's the problem? It's become a very successful online commodity along side the other flavors of lays.


what do you mean?

I think I'm compelled to point out that crime is not a verb. You don't crime, you commit or carry out crime. A fellow Grammar Nazi like you should know that, Batty.

And don't show me a link to the ****ing Urban dictionary: I'm talking about real English here. Show it to me in the OED as a verb and I'll back down. Can't, can you?

Umm, salt & vinegar ftw.