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View Poll Results: Is it ok to talk to younger people here about music?
Yes of course 5 45.45%
No it's creepy 0 0%
Yes as long as it remains only about music 4 36.36%
Don't care 2 18.18%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-27-2023, 07:40 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Just keep it in public and stay out of PMs and other one-on-ones.
^ Yep, sensible advice that's simple to follow. An approach to kids that I consider unproductive is jwb's about avoiding them altogether, on the grounds that an adult and kid have nothing in common. Regardless of changing musical tastes across the generations, we all have this in common with kids: we were once their age.

As for books at school, it's a sad fact that we are obligated to study books whether we like them or not, and when it's the "not" we are likely to be put off them for life. That's a shame because some of those books we might have enjoyed if we first came across them as adults. That's why I'm mentioning these books and when I read them as well:-

At school:
Macbeth by Shakespeare - didn't like
Great Expectations - liked at first, then got bored
Lord of The Flies - liked and then re-enjoyed as an adult
Animal Farm - ditto

As an adult:
Moby Dick - unable to read even one chapter
Great Gatsby - enjoyed, partly by visualizing the movie of that elegant, doomed era. I was sufficiently impressed to read Tender Is The Night, which I preferred.
Tale Of Two Cities - the only Dickens I have so far actually enjoyed.
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Old 01-27-2023, 07:47 AM   #72 (permalink)
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I view it as the Twilight of the '20s. A novel filled with vapid characters, a vapid love story, and a boring plot. At least the Great Gatsby didn't spawn sequels.
Oh god, can you imagine?! Moby Dick 2? The Great Gatsby: Resurrection? The Lord of the Flies Cinematic Universe?

I can only imagine the horrors.
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Old 01-27-2023, 07:52 AM   #73 (permalink)
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I view it as the Twilight of the '20s. A novel filled with vapid characters, a vapid love story, and a boring plot. At least the Great Gatsby didn't spawn sequels.
Yes, that's just what I liked about it SGR! We know something the characters don't: that their era will come crashing down with the Great Depression and Second World War, so it adds a poignancy to everything going on in the story.

Vapiid characters? Yeah, from what I remember, the characters drift around in the midst of plenty but remain unfulfilled. To me that's interesting because they are caught in that great conundrum of the modern age, which Dr. John sums up pretty well:

How can we live in the kingdom and never see the throne?
Have all the riches and treasures and still feel like we're alone?
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Old 01-27-2023, 08:10 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Yes, that's just what I liked about it SGR! We know something the characters don't: that their era will come crashing down with the Great Depression and Second World War, so it adds a poignancy to everything going on in the story.

Vapiid characters? Yeah, from what I remember, the characters drift around in the midst of plenty but remain unfulfilled. To me that's interesting because they are caught in that great conundrum of the modern age, which Dr. John sums up pretty well:

How can we live in the kingdom and never see the throne?
Have all the riches and treasures and still feel like we're alone?
So you liked Gatsby but you didn't like Moby Dick? What did you dislike about Mo Deezy?

Per the characterization of the people in the book being unfulfilled and being caught in the great conundrum of the modern age, I can think of three novels in this vein and I hated them all:

Hemingway's The Sun Also Rises
Gatsby
Brett Easton Ellis's Less Than Zero

And while I hated Less than Zero the most, all three of them just have the most unlikeable characters ever. I think a good writer can make characters like this more appealing by either letting an interesting plot do the heavy lifting or by making the characters noticeably flawed (flawed besides being vapid and unlikeable that is) - example being Hubert Selby Jr.s "Requiem for a Dream".
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Old 01-27-2023, 08:10 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Yeah the characters in Twilight are vapid to achieve pulp appeal, the characters in Gatsby are vapid because the narrator is vapid and only presents them as they relate to him. The unreliable narrator aspect and the closing lines are what make it for me. The Twilight of the 20s were the OG pulp mags.
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Old 01-27-2023, 08:19 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Yeah the characters in Twilight are vapid to achieve pulp appeal, the characters in Gatsby are vapid because the narrator is vapid and only presents them as they relate to him. The unreliable narrator aspect and the closing lines are what make it for me. The Twilight of the 20s were the OG pulp mags.
Sure, vapid for different reasons.

But I disagree, I think the narrator of Gatsby was reliably boring.

Granted, all this being said, this distaste I have for the novel is strictly from a one-time read of it in 11th grade. It's been a long time, maybe I should read it again and see if I feel the same way. I try to do this every now and then with food I've disliked in the past. Sometimes, I find that my taste has changed over the years. One thing I'll give Gatsby, it's thankfully not a long novel (unlike Moby Dick).
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Old 01-27-2023, 08:51 AM   #77 (permalink)
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The books I vehemently hate that I had to read in high school are The Power of One (had to read that Forrest Gump garbage twice) and Fahrenheit 451 (everyone zeroes in on the censorship but I see it as a technophobic screed). Catcher in the Rye used to be on the list but I've come around.
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Old 01-27-2023, 09:02 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Ray Bradbury is a fat sack of donkey dicks.

It's short enough that there's no harm in reading it though.
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Old 01-27-2023, 09:04 AM   #79 (permalink)
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does Fahrenheit 451 really suck that bad?

it's been in my list to read, maybe I can take it off
I haven't read it, but sounds like Frown dislikes it mostly because of tech-fear-mongering.

On a scale of 1 to Ted Kaczynski, how bad is the technophobia in it Frown?
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Old 01-27-2023, 09:06 AM   #80 (permalink)
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So you liked Gatsby but you didn't like Moby Dick? What did you dislike about Mo Deezy?
Quote:
One thing I'll give Gatsby, it's thankfully not a long novel (unlike Moby Dick).
Asked and answered, SGR ! I was fine with The GG and knew it wouldn't be a long haul. With "Mo Deezy", I already had plenty of experience with loooong wordy books and knew I didn't have the stamina to slog through another one that thick.

Quote:
Per the characterization of the people in the book being unfulfilled and being caught in the great conundrum of the modern age, I can think of three novels in this vein and I hated them all:

Hemingway's The Sun Also Rises
Gatsby
Brett Easton Ellis's Less Than Zero

And while I hated Less than Zero the most, all three of them just have the most unlikeable characters ever. I think a good writer can make characters like this more appealing by either letting an interesting plot do the heavy lifting or by making the characters noticeably flawed (flawed besides being vapid and unlikeable that is) - example being Hubert Selby Jr.s "Requiem for a Dream".
Fair enough! I have read but disliked several Hemingway books, though haven't tried The Sun Also Rises. Brett E E: I read a article about that book, which was sufficient to put me off it completely. Hubert Selby Jr. ? Never heard of this writer before.

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Yeah the characters in Twilight are vapid to achieve pulp appeal, the characters in Gatsby are vapid because the narrator is vapid and only presents them as they relate to him. The unreliable narrator aspect and the closing lines are what make it for me. The Twilight of the 20s were the OG pulp mags.
Yeah, I remember Fitzgerald's style to be very much about surface appearances; people do things, but their motives and characters are left for us to work out. Sounds like you enjoy that ambiguity, Frownland? And, with some reservations, ribbons liked his style too:-

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I find Fitzgerald's books and stories boring, but he has the most beautiful style and imagery. I gravitate to him because I love poetry and Fitzgerald writes in a very poetic prose style (similar to another favorite of mine, Tennessee Williams).

For example, from Gatsby:

"A breeze blew through the room, blew curtains in at one end and out the other like pale flags, twisting them up toward the frosted wedding-cake of the ceiling, and then rippled over the wine colored rug, making a shadow on it as wind does on the sea. The only completely stationary object in the room was an enormous couch on which two young women were buoyed up as though upon an anchored balloon. They were both in white, and their dresses were rippling and fluttering as if they had just been blown back in after a short flight around the house. I must have stood for a few moments listening to the whip and snap of the curtains and the groan of a picture on the wall. Then there was a boom as Tom Buchanan shut the rear windows and the caught wind died out about the room, and the curtains and the rugs and the two young women ballooned slowly to the floor."
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Originally Posted by SGR View Post
Sure, vapid for different reasons.

But I disagree, I think the narrator of Gatsby was reliably boring.

Granted, all this being said, this distaste I have for the novel is strictly from a one-time read of it in 11th grade. It's been a long time, maybe I should read it again and see if I feel the same way. I try to do this every now and then with food I've disliked in the past. Sometimes, I find that my taste has changed over the years.
My tip would be: try Tender Is The Night instead. It's more autobiographical, so that instead of just entertaining us with a story, Fitzy G is telling us a bit more about his own experiences.
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