Donald Trump Has Been Indicted

Lisnaholic · 06-10-2023, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGR

So you really think that after Russiagate, after the findings of the Durham report, after it's been revealed that the US intelligence operatives lied about Hunter Biden's laptop being "Russian disinformation" (resulting in censorship of the subject matter in social media), in the leadup to an election, and after two impeachments that what we're seeing here is just: "No one is above the law"?

Sorry Lisna, I think we're watching different movies. The amount of corrupt crooks and criminals in the United States government (we could just use the warmongers who lied us into Iraq and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians as a starting point), and Trump is being pursued for mishandling classified documents? I'm totally fine with someone believing this case is weak or trivial, but being in full support of it regardless and hoping the heaviest hammer comes down because they hate Trump, but to pretend that it isn't politically motivated and is completely and totally unbiased is pretty short-sighted.

Perhpas Trump can use the Hillary Clinton/James Comey "lack of criminal intent in mishandling classified information" defense?

Yes, I think we must be, SGR, and I think some of the blame lies with the media coverage and the way they focus on the story of the moment. It's easy for a casual viewer to get things out of perspective because the media doesn't give much comparative background information. If the top story is Hunter Biden's laptop on Monday, then Trump's call asking for Georgia votes on Tuesday, we might regard them as being of equal importance, but they're not.

I haven't found a decent analysis of DOJ investigations and convictions, but I have pulled these basic stats together:-
Mueller Report into Russian election interference:

Quote:

... the former FBI director has indicted, convicted or gotten guilty pleas from 34 people and three companies, including top advisers to President Trump, Russian spies and hackers with ties to the Kremlin. The charges, which Mueller referenced during his opening statement to the House Judiciary Committee on July 24, range from interfering with the 2016 election and hacking emails to lying to investigators and tampering with witnesses.

I counted 7 Republicans, Michael Cohen and a bunch of Russians convicted.

The Durham Report on how the Russia investigation was conducted :

Quote:

The Durham report: 316 pages, four years in the making, no convictions or new charges, and no major policy recommendations. Here’s what else you need to know.

In fact, Durham convicted one mid-level FBI guy of altering an email, but had two other prosecutions fail in the courts.

Yep, loads of governmental wrong-doing goes on and a lot of it goes unpunished, which is an arguement for what, exactly? Never charge Trump with anything? He stole, then lied about, then showed to other people box after box of classified documents. People like you and me don't know exactly what was involved, but it sounds very damaging to US national security, its global reputation and the confidence of the US's international allies. Breaking various laws and causing all that damage is sufficient motive to indict Trump imo.

As for Hunter Biden, I haven't followed that case really, mainly because he's not a US president, or even in public office afaik: not like those pigs-at-the-trough Ivanka and Jared who did so much to make unchecked nepotism fashionable.

Quote:

Perhpas Trump can use the Hillary Clinton/James Comey "lack of criminal intent in mishandling classified information" defense?

Finally, in answer to this question, No, I don't think he can. With Clinton and Comey no one could prove criminal intent. With Trump, I think it's already clear that there was criminal intent, cover-up, obstruction, etc. The details of the two cases are very different afaik.

And here's a final finally:

Quote:

At this point they're throwing any charge they can dig up at him and hoping one will stick and knock him out of the 2024 Presidential race.

Two problems with this scenario: Jack Smith is working independently of Merrick Garland and MG works independently of Biden. Yeah, it's perhaps naive to accept that too literally, but it indicates a degree of separation that the sinister Trump/Barr hand-in-glove clownshow made a mockery of.
Problem number two: Democratic strategists actually would like Trump to win the GOP primary, because they're confident that he'll lose the general election, just like he did last time.

The Batlord · 06-10-2023, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGR

So you really think that after Russiagate, after the findings of the Durham report, after it's been revealed that the US intelligence operatives lied about Hunter Biden's laptop being "Russian disinformation" (resulting in censorship of the subject matter in social media), in the leadup to an election, and after two impeachments that what we're seeing here is just: "No one is above the law"?

Sorry Lisna, I think we're watching different movies. The amount of corrupt crooks and criminals in the United States government (we could just use the warmongers who lied us into Iraq and killed hundreds of thousands of civilians as a starting point), and Trump is being pursued for mishandling classified documents? I'm totally fine with someone believing this case is weak or trivial, but being in full support of it regardless and hoping the heaviest hammer comes down because they hate Trump, but to pretend that it isn't politically motivated and is completely and totally unbiased is pretty short-sighted.

Perhaps Trump can use the Hillary Clinton/James Comey "lack of criminal intent in mishandling classified information" defense?

Yeah I don't think this case is actually weak or trivial even if I do think they wouldn't go this hard on someone other than Trump, but with the transcripts of him being like "Hey man look at these classified documents you shouldn't be looking at, which I totally didn't declassify, isn't it crazy?" I don't think anyone but Trump would be stupid enough to provide such clear evidence of malfeasance, so he's absolutely brought this on himself in a way that would kind of require a legal answer. Afaik there isn't evidence of him using the documents to sell to outside powers but he clearly was at least using classified documents to impress random people in a way that is highly illegal because he's a moron.

The Batlord · 06-14-2023, 12:36 PM

It's pretty incredible. Tbh the only thing that truly offends me about this case is that they won't let cameras in the court room. Come on, man, think of the content.

djchameleon · 06-14-2023, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I hope they come at him with everything they can and people who point out that what they're doing is political weak sauce are just smug morons who are announcing that they have read a headline. Is it dumb that they're only going after state **** two years after Jan 6? Yeah. Do I have hope they'll accomplish anything? Meh. Am I willing to watch this in case he actually gets put in jail? Sure. Am I stupid enough to tell everyone how little I care about mishandling classified documents as if it makes me a cool guy? Nah.

I agree with this somewhat. He is getting charged with way more than just mishandling cclassified documents but if you only read a headline here and there you would think that's it.

*coughs Elph coughs*

He's also being charged with mishandling campaign funds a similar charge to what Cohen was arrested for and went to jail and did time for.