The Official OFWGKTA thread

[billyjerome]

Has anyone read this?

a call for change | Tegan and Sara

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by billyjerome

Has anyone read this?

a call for change | Tegan and Sara

pure baloney

[Janszoon]

Originally Posted by billyjerome

Has anyone read this?

a call for change | Tegan and Sara

Sounds like yet another person who can't separate the artist from the art. Here's an idea Sara: I won't call for a change from your dull and highly derivative indie pop if you won't call for change from other artists. M'kay? Thanks.

[adidasss]

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Sounds like yet another person who can't separate the artist from the art. Here's an idea Sara: I won't call for a change from your dull and highly derivative indie pop if you won't call for change from other artists. M'kay? Thanks.

I don't fully understand this. I think it can work one way, say if you don't like the artist's personality or worldviews, but still like the music he produces and which doesn't reflect this, but I don't see how you can ignore the blatant homophobia and mysoginy explicitly expressed in the art and disconnect them from the person who made them.

And I also don't see a problem with her (or anyone else) speaking their mind against such arists who facilitate the spreading of hate and intolerance which, given his ever spreading audience and their age-group, is potentially problematic.

And given the social group he belongs to and their general machismo values, I'd be extremely surprised if he wasn't actually homophobic (even if not the "let's kill faggots" kind).

[Janszoon]

Originally Posted by adidasss

I don't fully understand this. I think it can work one way, say if you don't like the artist's personality or worldviews, but still like the music he produces and which doesn't reflect this, but I don't see how you can ignore the blatant homophobia and mysoginy explicitly expressed in the art and disconnect them from the person who made them.

Hmmm, well I'm not actually a fan of Tyler so it's hard for me to defend him except to say that I think he's actually being satirical in his music. My point, though, is that one can appreciate art as an expression of something even if that something is hateful and ugly. Take the painter Francis Bacon for example. By most accounts he was a horrible, abusive person and he made artwork that was violent and ugly. Not a person I'd ever want to spend time with on a personal level but nevertheless he's one of my favorite painters. Why? Because his art expresses something so strong and so powerful, ugly and nasty as it is, that I can't help but appreciate his work.

Originally Posted by adidasss

And I also don't see a problem with her (or anyone else) speaking their mind against such arists who facilitate the spreading of hate and intolerance which, given his ever spreading audience and their age-group, is potentially problematic.

She's free to say whatever she wants but likewise I'm certainly entitled to have an opinion about it. The problem I personally have with calls to stifle art like this is where does it end? There are plenty of people in this world who would love to stifle art that is critical of religion or government as well because to them that is hateful.

Originally Posted by adidasss

And given the social group he belongs to and their general machismo values, I'd be extremely surprised if he wasn't actually homophobic (even if not the "let's kill faggots" kind).

What social group is that?

[adidasss]

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Hmmm, well I'm not actually a fan of Tyler so it's hard for me to defend him except to say that I think he's actually being satirical in his music. My point, though, is that one can appreciate art as an expression of something even if that something is hateful and ugly. Take the painter Francis Bacon for example. By most accounts he was a horrible, abusive person and he made artwork that was violent and ugly. Not a person I'd ever want to spend time with on a personal level but nevertheless he's one of my favorite painters. Why? Because his art expresses something so strong and so powerful, ugly and nasty as it is, that I can't help but appreciate his work.

I don't think that's a valid comparison. Unless I'm grossly misinformed, I don't think Bacon's art was offensive to a specific group of people or targeted anyone based on their characteristics/natural traits/preferences.

She's free to say whatever she wants but likewise I'm certainly entitled to have an opinion about it. The problem I personally have with calls to stifle art like this is where does it end? There are plenty of people in this world who would love to stifle art that is critical of religion or government as well because to them that is hateful.

Being critical of something isn't the same as spreading prejudice and hate. One is constructive, the other is not.

What social group is that?

Rappers. :/

[Janszoon]

Originally Posted by adidasss

I don't think that's a valid comparison. Unless I'm grossly misinformed, I don't think Bacon's art was offensive to a specific group of people or targeted anyone based on their characteristics/natural traits/preferences.

From what I know of Tyler's music he isn't targeting anyone either. His lyrics are pretty much just generally misanthropic.

Originally Posted by adidasss

Being critical of something isn't the same as spreading prejudice and hate. One is constructive, the other is not.

You're assuming that everyone agrees on which is which though. Problem is they don't.

[adidasss]

Originally Posted by Janszoon

You're assuming that everyone agrees on which is which though. Problem is they don't.

And this is why we should be able to get into a dialog. My issue with your post was that you apparently dismiss anyone's right to be critical of other people's art. And which is precisely the point of T&S's post. Yes, anyone has a right to make art, and anyone is entitled to criticise it, in this particular case, because they feel it propagates hate and intolerance and of which the majority of people seem to turn a blind eye, ignoring the possible, or rather, probable effects such art creates.

[CHCl3]

Originally Posted by billyjerome

Has anyone read this?

a call for change | Tegan and Sara

Brilliant marketing move.

I did not know who in the **** Tegan and Sara were before this letter. I actually listened to their music on their website to see what it was about. Too bad it was complete and utter crap.