Sexual Orientation

Nine Black Poppies · 10-13-2010, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVCA

There is no reason for anyone to have "pride" in their sexuality. That's like having pride in your pinky toe. You didn't contribute to its creation or growth. It's just there, whether you like it or not.

Having read this whole exchange, I'm going to jump all the way back here and challenge this assumption as a falsehood.

Instead, I'm going to suggest the idea that identity (sexual or otherwise, but since we're talking about sexuality, I'm going to limit myself to that) is constructed, rather than discovered. Which is not to say I believe "Oooh, people choose to be gay!" cos that's a gross and inaccurate oversimplification of what I'm trying to get at.

Rather, it's more the idea that neither "heterosexuality" or "homosexuality" (or "bisexuality" or anything else you could come up with) have any intrinsic, universal meaning. They're culturally defined terms, characterized by a wide variety of different things--aesthetics, politics, community, etc. A conjunction of body parts in any configuration is inherently meaningless until we put it in a social context.

Navigating this context is a process of self-establishment. You build an identity through the choices you make in social situations, whether you acknowledge that's what's going on or not. Maybe people with so-called alternative sexualities tend to be more aware of the process, but if so, it's only because they bump up against the hetero-normalism that's prevalent in modern western culture, it doesn't mean that people who don't challenge that paradigm have any less of a process. In fact, given the established sexual scripts of masculine and feminine identity in our culture, one could argue that a woman proclaiming ownership and agency in her own sexuality is a fairly mighty accomplishment.

For either gender (and this isn't even getting into the fact that gender is also a sociocultural construction, evidenced by the presence of an established third gender in a variety of world cultures), navigating identity is a process of self-reflection, which you yourself listed as a qualifier for pride. Ergo, having pride in one's sexuality is a natural extension of having a sexual identity to begin with.

(PS: You may have 20 swamps, but I have a Circle of Protection: Black :p)

VEGANGELICA · 10-13-2010, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nine Black Poppies

A conjunction of body parts in any configuration is inherently meaningless until we put it in a social context.

Navigating this context is a process of self-establishment. Maybe people with so-called alternative sexualities tend to be more aware of the process, but if so, it's only because they bump up against the hetero-normalism that's prevalent in modern western culture, it doesn't mean that people who don't challenge that paradigm have any less of a process. In fact, given the established sexual scripts of masculine and feminine identity in our culture, one could argue that a woman proclaiming ownership and agency in her own sexuality is a fairly mighty accomplishment.

For either gender (and this isn't even getting into the fact that gender is also a sociocultural construction), navigating identity is a process of self-reflection, which you yourself listed as a qualifier for pride. Ergo, having pride in one's sexuality is a natural extension of having a sexual identity to begin with.

Is it just me, or is it getting warm in here with all these lovely words and concepts that Nine Black Poppies uses so eloquently?

"Ergo."

So where's the "I love words and their careful, sensuous handling" option?

As for pride in one's sexuality, I know that as a child I definitely did NOT have pride in my sexuality. I considered sexuality to be base and beneath me. The world of sex was a trite realm in which shallow, lesser minds fornicated and lusted, moved by urges that they were too undisciplined to control. Sexuality was a waste of time and distracted people from important and meaningful aspects of life.

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 10-13-2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Only for describing a country that's in the east as "western".

Technically that just makes me stupid!

storymilo · 10-13-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nine Black Poppies

(PS: You may have 20 swamps, but I have a Circle of Protection: Black :p)

PWND. Or an Armageddon.... kills his mana and nightmare in one fell swoop.

NumberNineDream · 10-13-2010, 03:42 PM

I think I'm under the "Unfigured Out" category. Will get back at you when I'm less doubtful of my knowing.

Oh, and I'm proud!

RVCA · 10-13-2010, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nine Black Poppies

Having read this whole exchange, I'm going to jump all the way back here and challenge this assumption as a falsehood.

Instead, I'm going to suggest the idea that identity (sexual or otherwise, but since we're talking about sexuality, I'm going to limit myself to that) is constructed, rather than discovered. Which is not to say I believe "Oooh, people choose to be gay!" cos that's a gross and inaccurate oversimplification of what I'm trying to get at.

Rather, it's more the idea that neither "heterosexuality" or "homosexuality" (or "bisexuality" or anything else you could come up with) have any intrinsic, universal meaning. They're culturally defined terms, characterized by a wide variety of different things--aesthetics, politics, community, etc. A conjunction of body parts in any configuration is inherently meaningless until we put it in a social context.

Navigating this context is a process of self-establishment. You build an identity through the choices you make in social situations, whether you acknowledge that's what's going on or not. Maybe people with so-called alternative sexualities tend to be more aware of the process, but if so, it's only because they bump up against the hetero-normalism that's prevalent in modern western culture, it doesn't mean that people who don't challenge that paradigm have any less of a process. In fact, given the established sexual scripts of masculine and feminine identity in our culture, one could argue that a woman proclaiming ownership and agency in her own sexuality is a fairly mighty accomplishment.

For either gender (and this isn't even getting into the fact that gender is also a sociocultural construction, evidenced by the presence of an established third gender in a variety of world cultures), navigating identity is a process of self-reflection, which you yourself listed as a qualifier for pride. Ergo, having pride in one's sexuality is a natural extension of having a sexual identity to begin with.

(PS: You may have 20 swamps, but I have a Circle of Protection: Black :p)

Forgive me if my response doesn't accurately respond to your objection.

Developing personality is, like growing a pinky toe, something that happens to everyone regardless of what decisions they make in life. Perhaps some people aren't content with the identity that they develop, and perhaps some people are. Does that give enough reason to justify pride in one's identity? .... No, I don't think it does. You can be prideful in having made a decision that was later revealed to be beneficial or satisfactory. Or you can have pride in certain aspects of your identity, aspects that you consciously had to work at. Such as being someone who has resolved to never tell a lie.

But like I said, everyone develops their personality whether they consciously choose to or not. Having pride in making good decisions that lead to what you consider to be a positive identity upon later reflection makes sense. Having pride simply because your identity is dynamic and is an inevitable result of decisions you made that weren't made specifically for the purpose of identity-development, that doesn't seem to make as much sense to me.

Little did you know, I'm using a Black/White deck! I play one Plains this turn, followed by Vindicate on your Circle of Protection.

Karrie · 10-14-2010, 01:05 PM

I'm a girl who likes guys.
So unique.

WWWP · 10-14-2010, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVCA

Or you can have pride in certain aspects of your identity, aspects that you consciously had to work at.

Oh, so like someone who has consciously resolved that they are indeed homo/hetero/bi/asexual? I mean, pride is "a feeling of self-respect and personal worth," there is no need for accomplishment.

Phobophile · 10-14-2010, 07:20 PM

Guy who likes girls. Real exciting. Lol.

**Janszoon** · 10-14-2010, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karrie

I'm a girl who likes guys.
So unique.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phobophile

Guy who likes girls. Real exciting. Lol.

Sounds like you two should get together.

View Poll Results: What is your sexual orientation?
I'm a guy who likes girls	104	50.98%
I'm a guy who likes guys	11	5.39%
I'm a girl who likes guys	26	12.75%
I'm a girl who likes girls	4	1.96%
I'm a guy who likes guys and girls	14	6.86%
I'm a girl who likes guys and girls	18	8.82%
I haven't figured out what I like yet...	3	1.47%
I'm asexual	4	1.96%
I'm an ostrich who likes badgers	20	9.80%
Voters: 204. You may not vote on this poll

10-13-2010, 03:42 PM	#55 (permalink)
NumberNineDream Blue Bleezin' Blind Drunk Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The land of the largest wine glass (aka Lebanon) Posts: 2,200	I think I'm under the "Unfigured Out" category. Will get back at you when I'm less doubtful of my knowing. Oh, and I'm proud! __________________ Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats?Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats?Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats?Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats?Do bats eat cats?Do bats eat cats?Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats?Do bats eat cats?Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Welcome to the Black Lodge Last edited by NumberNineDream; 10-13-2010 at 03:51 PM.

10-14-2010, 01:05 PM	#57 (permalink)
Karrie Groupie Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: In your head. Posts: 40	I'm a girl who likes guys. So unique. __________________ My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard.

10-14-2010, 07:20 PM	#59 (permalink)
Phobophile Groupie Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 43	Guy who likes girls. Real exciting. Lol.