Rape - Whose Fault Is It?

Guybrush · 07-21-2013, 11:05 PM

You may think it offensive, but there is a point you may be missing in katsy's post. Ask yourself this: who rapes the most? If you would teach boys or girls not to rape, but not both, who should be taught in order to minimize rape in society?

I'm a guy too, but I can see the answer is males. So I'm not really that offended. It's not a crazy accusation to make and maybe boys should have some extra focus.

But I do think everyone should learn that it is not okay for anyone to touch them sexually without their consent and that it follows that they shouldn't touch others without consent. I also think more gender equality in general is good for society and helps reduce rape.

~~butthead aka 216~~ · 07-21-2013, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katsy

Well, we disagree. I live in a world where girls are raised to be passive, demure, submissive, and meek. Boys are raised to be dominant, powerful, assertive. Just last month a man was touting a book that basically advocated rape as a way to pick up women. From the proposed book: if she says no, she really means try harder. be dominant, women like that
It goes on and gets worse. WTF? and this was gaining popularity! That teaches men to rape.

Really resists? Wow. So I guess "no" isn't good enough anymore. You're proving my point for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by katsy

I would advise you to do the research on rape in the US and the causes.

The society we live in has women portrayed as sex objects for men, in most cases. Rape is a gendered crime. The majority of victims are females, the majority of rapists are men. Rape in the U. S. is regulated not prohibited. Men are not punished for rape and women are not encouraged to resist rapists. Although there are laws against rape rarely are perpetrators charged or convicted. According to a national survey, the Rape in America study, only 16% of rapes are reported to police.

What does this teach? That rape is the norm. Well, boys are doing the raping because society is basically saying it's okay. We have socialized sexual aggression!

Quote:

Originally Posted by katsy

The US rape culture is appalling. We joke about it, make light of it, and project women as sex objects. This has influenced people; it's created a society in which women are desirable for their bodies. Look at American Apparel-- it's disgusting. And that's the message we send to our youth. Women are objects of sexual desire. If she's dressed in a provocative/sexy way she must want it. F*ck that.

We teach young girls not to get raped. Why the f*ck don't we teach little boys NOT to rape? Society is the problem: victim blaming, slut shaming, it's all wrapped up in one big ball of f**cked-upness.

This video is long-ish, but it's good.

theres just so much i hate about all of this, tore. claiming that rape is the norm???? 'why dont we teach little boys not to rape?' society says rape is ok??

katsy are you a rape victim by chance?? I am shocked that anyone holds these thoughts and beliefs that you apparently do although maybe i would understand a little more if you have been raped. katsy you make it sound like 'society' just throws pro-rape propoganda in everyones face.

plus i got problems with the whole 'women portrayed as sex objects' thing. implying that society portrays women as only useful for sex. not the case IMO. and this is comin from someone who is admittedly misogynistic and sexist sometimes LOL. i just hate the tone of your posts, makin it sound like we live in a world where a bunch of guys are runnin around seekin out women to rape and nobody cares, is stoppin them, or is punishing them

actually i dont feel like goin back to edit my post now but i guess i am comin from a cultural perspective of the usa and its laws. maybe you live in a country with terrible laws, like shaira law (LOL what a joke) or some other backwards country.

musicchamberdubai · 07-21-2013, 11:50 PM

I do not think any sensible person would think that there is even .0001% fault of victim in rape case. I do not know why that politician has expressed his view without thinking anything. We should respect women and at any time should not blame them for getting victimized.

Paul Smeenus · 07-21-2013, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katsy

I don't see how pointing out your own assertion that as long as women "resist" enough they won't be raped is talking ****. But if you see it that way, I'm sorry.

Regardless of our disagreement: Rape is abhorrent.

Katsy, I believe FK agrees that "no" should be enough and if/when the male pushes anything past that, he is committing rape or sexual assault (depending on degree). I believe what FK is saying is that normal males who make a sexual advance on a lady will cease and desist once the woman has made it clear that she wants the advances to stop, and only males with a rapist mentality won't stop. I don't think you two are really that far apart on this. I think he could have worded it better.

And @ misspoptart, I really really respect you.

djchameleon · 07-21-2013, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 216

theres just so much i hate about all of this, tore. claiming that rape is the norm???? 'why dont we teach little boys not to rape?' society says rape is ok??

katsy are you a rape victim by chance?? I am shocked that anyone holds these thoughts and beliefs that you apparently do although maybe i would understand a little more if you have been raped. katsy you make it sound like 'society' just throws pro-rape propoganda in everyones face.

plus i got problems with the whole 'women portrayed as sex objects' thing. implying that society portrays women as only useful for sex. not the case IMO. and this is comin from someone who is admittedly misogynistic and sexist sometimes LOL. i just hate the tone of your posts, makin it sound like we live in a world where a bunch of guys are runnin around seekin out women to rape and nobody cares, is stoppin them, or is punishing them

actually i dont feel like goin back to edit my post now but i guess i am comin from a cultural perspective of the usa and its laws. maybe you live in a country with terrible laws, like shaira law (LOL what a joke) or some other backwards country.

You are completely right and I agree with you. The tone of her posts come off as her just being as someone who hates males in general.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Smeenus

I don't think you two are really that far apart on this. I think he could have worded it better.
.

Not really Paul, She's basically saying that all men are willing to rape someone at some point in time and as a society we should be teaching little boys when they are growing up not to over step their boundaries and rape someone because men can't control themselves. That's exactly what it sounds like she is saying.

katsy · 07-22-2013, 03:11 PM

I do not hate men and I do not believe all males would rape, given the chance.

Sexual harassment is so common place. I do not think that 'men' can ever get what being a 'woman' in this society is like. The 'tone' of my posts is not meant to come from a place of being a man hater. I'm really not an awful person and I happen to enjoy more male friends than female ones.

If you truly look at the way women are perceived, the employment situations, laws, media, etc. Most affect women in a negative way--that's all. This puts women at a disadvantage. This is all goes back to gender roles and expectations. There is a great deal of research on why men rape-- and it does relate to gender roles/norms/society(all the above mentioned) and the social patriarch of men/women. So again, no most males will not rape given the chance. But it is males doing the raping and it is born out of a misogynistic culture.

And 216, f*ck you. It's none of your g*ddamn business if I was raped or not. That's out of line.

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 07-22-2013, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katsy

I do not hate men and I do not believe all males would rape, given the chance.

Sexual harassment is so common place. I do not think that 'men' can ever get what being a 'woman' in this society is like. The 'tone' of my posts is not meant to come from a place of being a man hater. I'm really not an awful person and I happen to enjoy more male friends than female ones.

If you truly look at the way women are perceived, the employment situations, laws, media, etc. Most affect women in a negative way--that's all. This puts women at a disadvantage. This is all goes back to gender roles and expectations. There is a great deal of research on why men rape-- and it does relate to gender roles/norms/society(all the above mentioned) and the societal patriarch of men/women. So again, no most males will not rape given the chance. But it is males doing the raping and it is born out of a misogynistic culture.

And 216, f*ck you. It's none of your g*ddamn business if I was raped or not. That's out of line.

I've been avoiding this thread since it's triggering to me because it's happened to be me and I'm really glad you're posting in here, just because I knew someone like 216 would feel that cute white boy entitlement to your sexual history. As if one has to be a victim of something to know it's wrong.

So

for you. For this whole post. Rape culture is very real and permeates so much of our media it's horrific.

~~butthead aka 216~~ · 07-22-2013, 08:18 PM

wow look at you edgy feminists standing up for your rights against the evil man who dared ask a simple personal question!!! a simple "sorry but that's none of your business" or "i dont feel comfortable answering that" would have done perfectly, but why say that when you have an opportunity to make yourself a victim?? keep make believing that you're some sort of social martyr and victim because you have a twat between your legs. i am certainly not apologizing whatsoever for just asking a completely relevant question lol. get off your pedestal and cut the fake outrage

as for women being at a disadvantage in employment and when it comes to laws, ill be the first to call BS on that. the pay gap is not what women make it out to be and the laws certainly aren't slighted against women whatsoever. have you not paid attention at all when it comes to anything child or divorce related (custody, alimony, child support, etc)???

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 07-22-2013, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 216

wow look at you edgy feminists standing up for your rights against the evil man who dared ask a simple personal question!!! a simple "sorry but that's none of your business" or "i dont feel comfortable answering that" would have done perfectly, but why say that when you have an opportunity to make yourself a victim?? keep make believing that you're some sort of social martyr and victim because you have a twat between your legs. i am certainly not apologizing whatsoever for just asking a completely relevant question lol. get off your pedestal and cut the fake outrage

funny how you use feminism as an insult. wanting equal rights must make us horrible people amirite guys lmao

are you not getting any pussy?

~~butthead aka 216~~ · 07-22-2013, 08:56 PM

it has nothing to do with equal rights because i don't think that's the endgame. by definition i think most of the US society is a feminist because i believe the strong majority of people want equal rights, myself included. it's those who proclaim so outwardly their feminism that i have an issue with because i think they are extremists who love nothin more than to act like a victim at any opportunity and stand on their soapbox and tell anyone who will listen how super oppressed they are by society and down trodden by the man. that dish comes with a huge side of exageration and hyperbole too.

i asked a legit question and i am met with that type of response. i never implied that only a rape victim would know it's wrong lol. but it is compeltely reasonable to ask the question because it pertains to the topic and i wanted to know if personal experience playe dinto what i consider a jaded attitude towards the topic. but again, that was taken as nothin more than a chance to gain sympathy and play the part of victim fueled by pesudo outrage more than anything. you can frame it as an 'attack' or 'entitlement' or whatever other words you wanna use but by no means would i apologize for that question being asked

not surprisingly you ((for some reason)) mentioned a race?? seems pretty typical of you tho for whatever reason. go back to your SRS brigade where people will roll over and agree with you on everything

View Poll Results: Can you blame the victim for getting raped when raping someone is illegal?
Yes	7	13.73%
No	44	86.27%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

07-21-2013, 11:05 PM	#161 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	You may think it offensive, but there is a point you may be missing in katsy's post. Ask yourself this: who rapes the most? If you would teach boys or girls not to rape, but not both, who should be taught in order to minimize rape in society? I'm a guy too, but I can see the answer is males. So I'm not really that offended. It's not a crazy accusation to make and maybe boys should have some extra focus. But I do think everyone should learn that it is not okay for anyone to touch them sexually without their consent and that it follows that they shouldn't touch others without consent. I also think more gender equality in general is good for society and helps reduce rape. __________________ Something Completely Different Last edited by Guybrush; 07-21-2013 at 11:20 PM.

07-22-2013, 03:11 PM	#166 (permalink)
katsy Music Addict Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 286	I do not hate men and I do not believe all males would rape, given the chance. Sexual harassment is so common place. I do not think that 'men' can ever get what being a 'woman' in this society is like. The 'tone' of my posts is not meant to come from a place of being a man hater. I'm really not an awful person and I happen to enjoy more male friends than female ones. If you truly look at the way women are perceived, the employment situations, laws, media, etc. Most affect women in a negative way--that's all. This puts women at a disadvantage. This is all goes back to gender roles and expectations. There is a great deal of research on why men rape-- and it does relate to gender roles/norms/society(all the above mentioned) and the social patriarch of men/women. So again, no most males will not rape given the chance. But it is males doing the raping and it is born out of a misogynistic culture. And 216, fck you. It's none of your gddamn business if I was raped or not. That's out of line. __________________ Split the Lark-- and you'll find the Music - Emily Dickinson Last edited by katsy; 07-22-2013 at 03:46 PM.

07-21-2013, 11:50 PM	#163 (permalink)
musicchamberdubai Groupie Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 8	I do not think any sensible person would think that there is even .0001% fault of victim in rape case. I do not know why that politician has expressed his view without thinking anything. We should respect women and at any time should not blame them for getting victimized.

07-22-2013, 08:18 PM	#168 (permalink)
~~butthead aka 216~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: freely swimmin thru the waters of glory much like a majestic bald eagle soars thru the skies Posts: 1,463	wow look at you edgy feminists standing up for your rights against the evil man who dared ask a simple personal question!!! a simple "sorry but that's none of your business" or "i dont feel comfortable answering that" would have done perfectly, but why say that when you have an opportunity to make yourself a victim?? keep make believing that you're some sort of social martyr and victim because you have a twat between your legs. i am certainly not apologizing whatsoever for just asking a completely relevant question lol. get off your pedestal and cut the fake outrage as for women being at a disadvantage in employment and when it comes to laws, ill be the first to call BS on that. the pay gap is not what women make it out to be and the laws certainly aren't slighted against women whatsoever. have you not paid attention at all when it comes to anything child or divorce related (custody, alimony, child support, etc)???

07-22-2013, 08:56 PM	#170 (permalink)
~~butthead aka 216~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: freely swimmin thru the waters of glory much like a majestic bald eagle soars thru the skies Posts: 1,463	it has nothing to do with equal rights because i don't think that's the endgame. by definition i think most of the US society is a feminist because i believe the strong majority of people want equal rights, myself included. it's those who proclaim so outwardly their feminism that i have an issue with because i think they are extremists who love nothin more than to act like a victim at any opportunity and stand on their soapbox and tell anyone who will listen how super oppressed they are by society and down trodden by the man. that dish comes with a huge side of exageration and hyperbole too. i asked a legit question and i am met with that type of response. i never implied that only a rape victim would know it's wrong lol. but it is compeltely reasonable to ask the question because it pertains to the topic and i wanted to know if personal experience playe dinto what i consider a jaded attitude towards the topic. but again, that was taken as nothin more than a chance to gain sympathy and play the part of victim fueled by pesudo outrage more than anything. you can frame it as an 'attack' or 'entitlement' or whatever other words you wanna use but by no means would i apologize for that question being asked not surprisingly you ((for some reason)) mentioned a race?? seems pretty typical of you tho for whatever reason. go back to your SRS brigade where people will roll over and agree with you on everything