Is it possible to objectively judge music? (country, rock, genre)

TheBig3 · 09-25-2008, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anticipation

it's impossible to objectively judge anything.

you wreak of deconstructionism.

All you would need to do is set up criteria first one what would be up for judgment and how those scales would look. Its why academic papers generally start off with definitions of things, so as to allow the reader to know what your basing judgments on. So long as the criteria that serves as the basis for the judgment is standardized, there ought to be no problem with being able to judge things objectively.

~~Fyrenza~~ · 09-25-2008, 10:54 PM

ive wondered about this 2

i generally turn on the 'now playing' option on windows media player and i have the 'music colors' -- 'colors in motion' visualization selected

ive wondered if i could tell if i would like a song just by the way the patterns of that visualization flowed

i was admittedly high at the time

i agree with Blackbird -- i cant do screammo or noise so my judgement of that type of music would be quite shallow as its damn near impossible to listen to something while trying not to hear any of it

and anticipation -- not because im into deconstructionism but because its awful hard to get everyone on the same page even as far as what the basic definitions are since everything is up for interpretation

the short answer = Nah

anticipation · 09-26-2008, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

you wreak of deconstructionism.

*reek

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

All you would need to do is set up criteria first one what would be up for judgment and how those scales would look. Its why academic papers generally start off with definitions of things, so as to allow the reader to know what your basing judgments on. So long as the criteria that serves as the basis for the judgment is standardized, there ought to be no problem with being able to judge things objectively.

wouldn't the definitions in themselves be subjective of those who define them? the standardization of someone's subjective opinion on what criteria to include and what to omit would not remove the fact that a living person made choices based on some sort of belief, whether knowingly or not.

TheBig3 · 10-02-2008, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anticipation

*reek

wouldn't the definitions in themselves be subjective of those who define them? the standardization of someone's subjective opinion on what criteria to include and what to omit would not remove the fact that a living person made choices based on some sort of belief, whether knowingly or not.

The definitions can be subjective. By putting them forward you can objectivly judge the music based on criteria.

This is like the whole vetting the vetters thing. If you agree that item X will be considered valued and then define how the rankings will go, you can do it. Its more about making it known how results were achieved and not declaring things to be the best song ever by secret workings behind the scenes.

cardboard adolescent · 09-27-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

you wreak of deconstructionism.

All you would need to do is set up criteria first one what would be up for judgment and how those scales would look. Its why academic papers generally start off with definitions of things, so as to allow the reader to know what your basing judgments on. So long as the criteria that serves as the basis for the judgment is standardized, there ought to be no problem with being able to judge things objectively.

yes, but which criteria you decide to set up is ultimately completely subjective so you're not much further along, are you?

you can play around with the criteria and definitions you use until you can prove any proposition, even "backstreet boy's christmas album is better than pet sounds"

~~Fyrenza~~ · 09-27-2008, 02:42 PM

its a paradox

it can and cant be objectively judged

subjectively
we can all agree that a concert pianist is playing better music than an 8 year old on a toy piano

but objectively
we all also agree that both are playing music

any judgements would have to be some of both

WaspStar · 09-27-2008, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrenza

its a paradox

it can and cant be objectively judged

subjectively
we can all agree that a concert pianist is playing better music than an 8 year old on a toy piano

but objectively
we all also agree that both are playing music

any judgements would have to be some of both

True, but I said in my original post that we're talking about pure "quality" here, not in terms of technical prowess or other such details.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Stengel

2. The difference is how much music one is exposed to. I essentially have the same tastes, however, the amount of music Ive been exposed to changed it. Im not saying its BETTER than anyone elses-to me it is because my exposure has led to me discovering music thats better IMO. The point Im trying to make is that the amount of music people are exposed to tends to broaden their tastes, thus having a more informed opinion, thus having a larger influence over other tastes/more compatibility, which is viewed as "good taste" (again, Im NOT being egotistical-Im simply raising the point that those exposed to more music tend to be compatible with more music listeners)
Might I also add that In no way do I consider my tastes broad, Im simply trying to play devils advocate.

I see what you're getting at (and I don't think you're being egotistical), and I think experience/broad taste can certainly help you in reccomending music to other people ("You like artist A and artist B? Then you'll love artist C"), but that's not the same as objective judgment.

I think most people will agree that they refine their ideas of what is "good" as they hear more music, but I think that's just another way to support the idea that music can never be objectively judged in terms of its aesthetic quality.

09-25-2008, 10:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
~~Fyrenza~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: high above the Republic of Texas Posts: 216	ive wondered about this 2 i generally turn on the 'now playing' option on windows media player and i have the 'music colors' -- 'colors in motion' visualization selected ive wondered if i could tell if i would like a song just by the way the patterns of that visualization flowed i was admittedly high at the time i agree with Blackbird -- i cant do screammo or noise so my judgement of that type of music would be quite shallow as its damn near impossible to listen to something while trying not to hear any of it and anticipation -- not because im into deconstructionism but because its awful hard to get everyone on the same page even as far as what the basic definitions are since everything is up for interpretation the short answer = Nah

09-27-2008, 02:42 PM	#6 (permalink)
~~Fyrenza~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: high above the Republic of Texas Posts: 216	its a paradox it can and cant be objectively judged subjectively we can all agree that a concert pianist is playing better music than an 8 year old on a toy piano but objectively we all also agree that both are playing music any judgements would have to be some of both