Music Banter's Essential Collections Discussion
 

OK. This is merely the discussion aspect of an idea I have. I would like to have essential album lists compiled by MB members relevant to the various genre forums we have. These will be compiled top tens with reviews written by various members. Hopefully they will act as guides for both noobs and members wishing to jump into a new genre.

A few basic out lines I have so far:

Lists must be between 5 and 10 albums with max points given to first place down to 1 for last place. EG If you can only come up with 6 albums, then first place gets 6 points, 2nd 5 points etc. If it's a ten album list then it's ten for first etc.
Only one artist per submiited list. (so you cant nominate 3 clash albums in a 5 strong list!)
Particular genre lists stay open for 2 weeks.

Participation:

I would like people to have a say in what categories we should make these lists. Please be reasonable in your requests. Don't ask for a genre that isn't particulary beneficial to the community. We can split Punk into pre 1990 and post 1990 for example. Let's get some input before we begin!

Punks a difficult one with all the sub-genres. A pre 1990 split sounds good.

I would prefer not to but I have to concede that a lot of younger members are into other areas of Punk that sound quite different from the first wave.... and I would'nt be too pleased to see a Green Day album nestled in with the Clash and G.B.H etc!

Indie/Alternative is another difficult one. I guess we'll just have to let people interpret that for themselves outside of Post-punk, Shoegaze, Indie Pop and the like.

So come on people. What genres should be included?

First off, I really like this idea but I don't really understand that whole point system you were talking about. Why are there points?

As for genres, I wish more people listened to classical music on MB so I would be happy to help in classical. But rather than albums I think just a type of work by a composer could be used as an album and then maybe a recommened recording. (Example: Beethoven's Sonatas, recommended recording: Claudio Arrau). Then, within the list of 10, there could be like 2 per period (baroque, romantic, etc...). Something along the lines of this I think would work well.

There are points to create a top 10, otherwise I would have to put them into order personally which wouldn't be fair. I will do the point scoring anyhow.

I assume metal would be a part of it, but does that mean we have one for every subgenre of metal? Or at least every subgenre anyone gives a toss about? It would have to be done that way but thats gonna be ALOT of categories!

My personal solution would be to put it into decades which would then incorporate the many sub genres without having to widen the net? so 70's/80's/90's and 00's. Post Rock should have it's own though.

Hmm I suppose that might work? Thats covering a hell of a lot of ground though, especially when you try to narrow your choices down. Would it not work to maybe just cover whatever genre anyone is willing to cover and leave those that no one wants to contribute to?

Maybe but then how far do the sub genres go. If only 3 members (for example) wanted Death Metal then it would'nt be a diverse list and then when it's actually up with reviews will it not just be too much for people to wade through? As for narrowing it down- I think that will mean that the cream rises to the top so to speak and the good albums will make it regardless of the sub genre.

I did some research, so here we go:

here's an Wikipedia overview that could be helpful.

I think we all agree on the excluded categories on the list like military music, ballroom etc..

so, I'd take:

- Blues (+ Bluesrock maybe?)

- Easy Listening (maybe?? like with Lounge music, elevator music,.. some people might have a favor for that?? you decide.. )

- Electronic must be devided, but I have no idea.. somebody else do it. Maybe House, Trip Hop, Techno, Drum and Bass. Are there many admirers of Electronic music on here? What about Downbeat? I really like Trip Hop, but it's not like I could name 5 cds..
- EBM

- Heavy Metal must be devided by someone else

- Hip Hop (again, devison?? American VS English or something? what about Grime, someone said it's electronic+rap rather than hip hop)

- Jazz (Swing? Acid Jazz? Jazz-funk?)

- Folk

- Reggae
- Ska

- Rythm'n'Blues
- Soul
- Nu Soul
- Funk
(I see the James Brown discussion coming up again..)

- Pop (versatile, but I don't see many pop fanatics on here)

- Grunge / Post-Grunge
- Emo (if needed?)
- Nu Metal (?)
- other Alternative Rock / Independend
- Gothic (if needed?)
- Glam Rock (?)
- Punk pre-90
- Punk post-90
- Hardcore
- Hard Rock
- Progressive
- Phsychedelic
- Rock n Roll
- Rap Rock (if needed?)
- New Wave

- Country

- classical / opera

oh yeah another list of genres on some German music page

Some of those can be condensed for sure. I like Electronic music but it's not huge on here to be fair. Thanks for the list though. Food for thought.

just read that. good idea, especially for Alternative. every second one on here seems to be the greatest admirer of music, that might partly fit into other categories, but in the end suits best in Alternative.
What music isn't alternative anyway?
Decades would work perfectly

I was thinking that if metal was split into subgenres then if theres a two week deadline for submitting reviews they could be a similar period to register interest for each subgenre but with a limit that has to be reached in terms of members willing to contribute toward it for it to be included.

You do make a good point though, that could result in one hell of a lot of threads for metal alone. I dont know, the more I think of it I would prefer it my way but by decade might be best.

Tried to do this earlier myself, people volunteered, but when it came to actually writing something nobody gave two shits about it.

Best of luck to you jackhammer.

I think a blues section would be lovely! But as has been said before, alot of these genres are made up of many sub genres. I'm not sure all what you would have blues encompass...

Progressive should get its own section IMO, since the term is often extended into other genres when they meet certain quotas (extended suites, weird time signatures, certain lyrical themes, etc). So Prog. rock, metal, and electronic would all go under the same umbrella. :wave:

Noise Rock my man.

I reckon world music could do with its own section as well. You could probably get some interesting lists from people without having to narrow things down further (into regions and more specific genres) as well.

^but that would make a change in the point system necessary, otherwise someone from Switzland would post 10 records, and someone from Korea maybe 6 and someone from Uganda 5, and then there would be those from Switzerland with 10,9,8 and 7 points in the list, therefore over-representing one country.
Or it doesn't even have to be their own country, but nevertheless, the point system only makes sense if people are expected to somehow have a common denominator

I like the idea, but it doesn't really fit the concept. We could make a special edition with world music, containing one chosen regional/world music album by each who wants to contribute (there won't be that many either.. I guess)

one more thing in general:
is it possible to make the posts of the others invisible?
There could be people, who would normally put one certain album on, say #4, but after reading through previous posts and realizing that their #1,#2 and #3 albums most certainly already made the list, put their #4 on the number 1 spot, so that it gets the expected missing points to also make the list. Or even put a different record by the same artist on there (one that's been given points before), just so that this artists makes the list. It would be an advantage for late-posters in comparison to those who posted early and didn't know how many points their favorite records need eventually.
Just saying..

Haven't been on here then, but it sounds different.
This time everyone would at first only have to name the records, and everyone likes doing that.
then there'd be the sticky topic with the records on it, and that already is great imo.
and time after time the reviews would come, with no hurry at all.
(if I got the idea right)

I see your point, but I can't see threads dedicated to, for example, Arabic, west African or Indonesian music getting that many lists submitted to it. If we use world music as an umbrella term for non-western music (which, in truth, journos do all the time) I reckon we could get some interesting submissions.

At the end of the day it's probably not really worth it. World music is far too broad a term for this kind of idea. I'm just saying it'd at least be interesting (educational as well) to see what people come up with, if there are even that many submissions in the first place.

There should definitely be lists for Blues, Prog Rock and there will be some sort of umbrella for World music. Possibly an African music thread as that generally has it's own distinct sound and would be the most beneficial.

I don't think these genres have been mentioned yet: Garage, Krautrock, proto-punk and post punk.

This would be good for me because I need to work on the basics.

Post Punk will definitely have it's own category. Krautrock will probably be included in psychedelic. Garage and Proto Punk could ostensibly be the same category.

OK so here's an idea. There's already an education thread under each genre's forum. They have the main subgenres already listed. Why not start a thread to determine the top 10 in each subgenre using the genres already listed under the education threads, and then post the top 10 there as well? This would at least work for punk, rock, metal, reggae, ska, indie, and alternative. As for the others, I don't know that pop, soul, funk, country, and folk really need to be broken down (I know there's subgenres in some of these but I'm not sure there's enough interest on mb for them to be broken down further). Electronica and jazz would need to be split up, and maybe blues I've never been a big fan so I don't know if there are a lot of blues subgenres. So whaddya think?

I would'nt want to go down the Jazz sub genre route. There simply isn't enough fans on here to warrant it. Electronica SHOULD be split up but again, are there enough fans on to create a top 10 Drum and Bass list for example?

Haha yes I know, I'm well aware but also a bit biased because I somewhat recently discovered electronica but don't like normal techno like, for example, tiesto... But I really like this idea and think it should be done. Hopefully there will be enough participation this time around (I wasn't here last time) to actually get some essential collections. Let's do it!

so, what now?

:brings the defibrillator:

-Heavy Metal 70's
-Heavy Metal 80's
-Heavy Metal 90's
-Heavy Metal 00's

-Garage / Proto-Punk

-Pre 1990 Punk
-Post 1990 Punk

-Alternative 80's
-Alternative 90's
-Alternative 00's

-Post Punk
-New Wave (?)

-Shoe Gaze

-Brit Pop

-Progressive Rock / Art Rock

-Psychedelic / Krautrock

-Rock n Roll / Rockabilly

-Hard Rock

-Classic Rock

-Modern Rock / Nu Metal / Rap Rock

-Noise Rock

-Grunge / Post-Grunge

-Blues

-Funk

-Soul / Rhythm'n'Blues

-Pop (including contemporary R'n'B) Pre1995
-Pop (including contemporary R'n'B, Neo Soul) Post1995

-Classical (Composers instead of Albums)

-Jazz

-Electronica pre2000
-Electronica post2000

-Hip Hop pre1995
-Hip Hop post1995

-Reggae

-Ska

-Folk / Folk Rock

-World Music (?)

what do you think?

Jesus! this is some undertaking :(

I love it!

Post Rock
Experimental


The list goes on...

^allright then! it now seems like a lot of work, but as soon as we have a complete list, I could imagine it to run automaticly. What's the big deal of putting your favorite records of some genre on a list and post it in some topic. I think everyone will love to do that, it's just that no one wants to think it all through now.

well as for you Jackhammer it will be some work still, no doubt. But you could delegate some of us to do some of the counting, just give us some genre and we'll do it. I will, if you want me to.
I'd take the soul, pop, jazz, funk topics (not that those are my favorites in general, but I'm still not familiar with all the subgenres of rock etc)

Speaking of it, similar to the education topics we could all copy and paste the list and each put some artists as examples behind the genres, so that we can discuss and will be on one with each other where to put the records later on (less confusion when the actual process starts)

but first, let's reflect on the list.

-Heavy Metal 70's
-Heavy Metal 80's
-Heavy Metal 90's
-Heavy Metal 00's

-Garage / Proto-Punk

-Pre 1990 Punk
-Post 1990 Punk

-Alternative 80's
-Alternative 90's
-Alternative 00's

-Post Punk
-New Wave (?)

-Shoe Gaze

-Brit Pop

-Progressive Rock / Art Rock

-Psychedelic / Krautrock

-Rock n Roll / Rockabilly

-Hard Rock

-Classic Rock

-Modern Rock / Nu Metal / Rap Rock

-Noise Rock

-Post Rock

-Experimental

-Grunge / Post-Grunge

-Blues

-Funk

-Soul / Rhythm'n'Blues

-Pop (including contemporary R'n'B) Pre1995
-Pop (including contemporary R'n'B, Neo Soul) Post1995

-Classical (Composers instead of Albums)

-Jazz

-Electronica pre2000
-Electronica post2000

-Hip Hop pre1995
-Hip Hop post1995

-Reggae

-Ska

-Folk / Folk Rock / Roots

-World Music (?)


so, do we keep World Music? I had my doubts before, but I'm on now.
What's the deal with New Wave? is it a promising genre itself, or does it fit somewhere?
What about EBM? I've learned some of you like that stuff. should it be an own category, or does it fit somewhere?

Are you all satisfied with the decades of some categories?
I thought it would be good to have 2 categories with pop, hip hop and electronica, but put the border of electronica 5 years later, because I the genre didn't seem that old to me, but correct me if I'm wrong! if there's enough electronica before 1990 we could also make it pre1990,1990-2000,post2000 !?

No offence, but doing it that way with all those genres seem like waaay too much work and while people will contribute to the lists, it will be less when the genres are so specific. I wouldn't know where to start on my list of the 10 best world music albums.

I would make some supercategories. If people complain a lot about it and they wanna be more specific, then it's probably easier making spinoff-threads for subgenres once you know that people are willing to contribute to that than do it before you know.

For example, Metal could be one supercategory that would be fine with me. I don't mind Dio competing with Slipknot, although pre and post 90s could make sense.

I disagree on that, I don't think once you let people post their lists and then realize that it would be better to divide the genre, it will be easy. You can't just split the lists, so you have to let everyone post new lists again.

Isn't it possible to do the thinking before it starts? I mean, thats what this topic here is about, everyone should say which categories are good and which they believe aren't neccessary, and when a group of maybe 15 people on here have done that, we know which categories to keep and which to drop.

Your idea could be more accurate, as we see what happens and then decide what to do, but I would prefer this idea, as the proccess of submitting albums in the topics will probably be more fluent.

Plus, I asked Jackhammer to set a Minimum of 5 records, but would now ask to set the minimum lower again - because with the point system that you posted, the people that would only post 1 album aren't a problem anymore (as I thought they were...). theirs just doesn't count as much. If you want your top album to have some more points you just have to name more.

And that would also solve your problem, toretorden, if you only know 3 great world music albums, that's ok. if anyone else knows 7, his just have more weight.

And, with which genre would you merge world music with anyway?

ps: the only problem I also see is that some (including me) won't even know, which subgenre some record fits into..

I don't know, someone else decide what to do!

I don't think metal should be divided by time. I think it should simply be "extreme" and "traditional." Extreme metal meaning grindcore, black metal, death metal, thrash metal, and death/funeral/drone doom and any other ridiculous metal subgnres that are extreme that i missed. Traditional metal would just consist of the classic metal bands i.e Priest, Maiden, Sabbath, and then the traditional doom metal bands like Trouble. Dividing metal by time would cause the 80s to have Maiden competing with Death which really just doesn't sound right.

Come on. I would like lots more input please as I think the finished articles will be great reading.

Why is hip-hop divided into pre-1995 and post-1995? Is there some significance to that year that I'm unaware of? It seems like it would be easier to just do hip-hop by decade like some of the other genres.

Don't mind me, I'm jumping into this conversation pretty late.