Farfisa

Ugh, alright most of us here that don't like Beth Ditto we judge her as a person and a musician. Ya know? You started calling us out because someone posted a picture of someone they thought was attractive with someone you thought was attractive for comparison. First off, finding women in tasteful music is very rare and obese women it's even rarer, so what if he had no plus size musician to compare to yours? I just find this argument to be stupid, you mam are being "sizest" as you won't even let us compare a woman who happens to be skinny with a woman who is obese without throwing a major hissy fit.

Furthermore, why are we not allowed to have phsyical preferences? People are attracted to different sizes and colors, but that doesn't make us sizest or racist. You just need to chill out and relax a bit, we would love to have you on this board as you seem like a well educated person who takes time to write her posts and we need more people like you. Just please, relax a bit... we're all friends here.

Goblin Tears

Excuse me, but what difference does it make whether he posts a Courtney Love picture or not? He actually posted a Janis Joplin picture, so I'm assuming his judgements are based entirely on the physical. Zac's post was entirely based on judging Beth's PHYSICAL appearance, and had nothing to do with her talent/personality, he even clarifies this himself by linking thirtiesgirl to other threads that he deems more appropriate. People didn't consider Courtney Love ugly in the early nineties either, and Katy O is actually IN this thread, her name unblemished...if you dislike them on the simple pretext of their questionable personalities, I don't see how that has anything to do with the topic at hand.

Anyway, the problem imo is not these cruel judgements on a physical appearance. The fact that when a member picks out a person she personally judges as beautiful and posts her in this thread, and others are indecliate enough to force this poster to re-evaluate her decision because they have a more primitive sense of beauty is ridiculously irritating. So I don't blame thirtiesgirl for ''picking a fight''...because that's what everyone else in this thread is doing, albeit less maturely.

Sansa Stark

She's not being mature, she's trying to feign maturity with bull**** phrases about being "educated"

thirtiesgirl

I'm not surprised to read this from you since you engage in sizeist behavior. It's a typical sizeist argument. Again, unless you have looked at a fat person's medical records and have spoken to them about their fat history, you have no idea why they're fat. You can't assume that they "can help it." There are many reasons why a person may be fat, many of them not related to food or mobility, and often related to genetics. Your assumption that people can control their weight is, again, simply based on size and that fact that you don't like fat or fat people, rather than actual knowledge of why fat people are fat.

Hon, I really didn't. I posted in this thread, as I said above, to present an alternative to the usual raison d'etre of pics being posted here. Had Zaq not questioned me on it and Paloma not engaged in overt fat hatred, this discussion would never have ensued.

Hate, you continue to maintain your disingenuousness here. I honestly can't believe that you don't see Zaq's intentions. If he wanted to make the point that his lack of attraction to Beth Ditto is based on her personality, he could have posted pics of Beth in comparison to other fat women like Mama Cass, Adele, the Gravy Train girls, etc. He wouldn't have to limit it to music, either. There's Roseanne, Mindy Cohn, Delta Burke, Melissa McCarthy, Camryn Manheim, etc. His point in posting pics of Beth with slender women was to comment on her size and nothing more.

If you're not one of the many guys who have posted pics of women here solely based on their appearance, then you have nothing to worry about, hon. If you've walked the earth as a fat person, and "battled with weight issues" as you say, then you'll know how fat people are treated by the general public. We're seen as less than, socially unacceptable, unattractive, lazy, slovenly, unambitious, etc, etc. If you've experienced any of those things before (which I'm guessing that you have, since that's usually a large part of the reason why people strive to lose weight), I'd think you'd want to help create a social environment where people of all sizes and shapes can feel accepted, appreciated and understood.

Hon, I'm a fat person dealing with open fat hatred and fear on an internet forum. I believe I'm allowed to defend myself and stand up for what I believe in.

Size acceptance is not just my agenda. It's the agenda of many people in the world and one that I will advocate for under any circumstances. As I wrote above, had Zaq not questioned my decision to post pics of women who *I* admire in this thread because he wanted to make an issue of his assessment of Beth's unattractiveness, and had Paloma not engaged in open fat hatred, this discussion would never have occurred. I'm not going to let sizeism slide when it occurs, and it might help to have more size advocates here so we could avoid discussions like this in the future.

__________________
Even in my darkest recollection, there was someone singing my life back to me. ~Neko Case

Mojo

It seems to me that people have been simply claiming that someone who looks as Beth Ditto does is probably medically unhealthy, not that she is unattractive. People may think she is unattractive too but that hasnt been brought into the equation yet.

What do people think the term "obese" was invented for? It isnt to slag someone off or make them feel bad. If you're obese, you're obese. It doesnt make you "sizeist" just to use that term. Just ask a doctor if you care so much and let this die.

__________________

Last.FM | Echoes and Dust

Paedantic Basterd

Okay, you, stop this. Now. It's agonizingly condescending and disrespectful, and it's no wonder people are treating you the way you are when you so blatantly patronize every individual you respond to in this thread. The next post of yours that starts with this word, I will completely disregard. Thank you.

thirtiesgirl

I don't feel like there are too many friendly voices here, since I'm pretty much the sole voice advocating for size acceptance and receiving continuous flak for it. Goblin_Tears has been supportive, for which I'm grateful, but several others here have been openly hateful to the idea of size acceptance and that it's ok for someone to find fat people attractive.

Here's the thing, as I've written in this thread before: I've never once said that Zaq or anyone else should find fat women attractive. As a fat woman myself, I'm well aware that fat people are pretty much universally seen as unattractive by a majority of the general public. I understand that attraction is subjective and if someone doesn't find fat people attractive, that attraction is not going to change. What can change, however, is how they relate to fat people and their choice to express fat hatred or not. Zaq's choice to post pics of Beth Ditto in comparison to thinner women only served to highlight his opinion that Beth is unattractive because she's fat. As I wrote above to Hate, if Zaq wanted to make a point about Beth's personality, there are many other fat women that he could have compared her to. Why choose thin women, if the point was not to make an issue of Beth's size?

__________________
Even in my darkest recollection, there was someone singing my life back to me. ~Neko Case

The Fascinating Turnip

What you did was search for sizeism, you didn't chance upon it.

It's thread about women musicians who people think are physically attractive and you post Beth Ditto. What were you expecting?

Also, you said you found them attractive, not that you admired them.

Goblin Tears

What was she expecting? How about a little RESPECT. Why can't she post Beth Ditto? Are y'all that immature? Since when are you the authority on beauty, sweetheart?

I admire thirtiesgirls posts; eloquent, intelligent and passionate, yet she is being mistreated in this thread. Leave her be!

Mojo

I'd love to know how you came to the conclusions you did. I haven't seen disrespect in this thread or people who have told anybody who they cant find attractive or unattractive. Just that if you can be classed as obese, you probably arent in the best of health. I dont see how this can be argued.

__________________

Last.FM | Echoes and Dust