The louder the lie, the better believed

cardboard adolescent · 12-31-2009, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shellyboy9

Okay, bugalow, maybe you're right and I apologize for being overbearing. But you know, where there's one Tuna there's a thousand; but yeah, guy, enough. I'm a bit intrigued cardboard adolescent, yours seems to be the age old tussle between the Apollonian and the Dionysian. Both sides seem to muddy the fact of simple being. For me, music has always been that place where that age old struggle can be put aside. Life seems such work, and I don't want to have to work to appreciate my music. Well, another day all.

Sounds like you're struggling against the struggle

SATCHMO · 12-31-2009, 04:11 AM

Well Mr. OP, sir, you do seem to be tilting at windmills so to speak.

What is the point that you're trying to make exactly, and whom are you directing that point toward? All of us young naive neophyte music enthusiasts who, of course, really need an esoteric history lesson on the origins of contemporary popular music and any adjunct racial baggage that may go along with it? I'll pass. It's old news buddy, something that many of us gave up dwelling on once we came to the stark, yet paradoxically beautiful realization that life goes on and that music evolves and perpetuates itself with or without the black man providing a barometric reading as to its future course.

Every so often we get the disgruntled late 30 to 40-something who feels the need come and wave their cane around at the new breed of whipper-snappers that just won't stay off his lawn. It then becomes my job to walk them back inside, calmly remind them to take their medication, and inform them that there's a Golden Girls marathon on TV Land, all while everyone else burns a pentagram on the lawn to roast their weenies over. I just don't want to see that to happen to you. I really like your lawn.

If that all sounds ridiculous it's because that being a member of this forum for almost 5 years has taught me that spewing such ridiculous nonsense is really my only line of defense in situations such as this. Logic and reasoning never culminate toward a mutual understanding, peaceful coexistence, or even an agreement to simply disagree. No, it just perpetuates that pedantic fudge river further and further down the hill...closer and closer to the village...closer to your lawn.

I just don't want to see that happen to you.

I really like your lawn.

Golden Girls is on.

right-track · 12-31-2009, 04:48 AM

This thread is fascinating me and I was going to wave my cane and post my opinion, but having just read SATCHMO's post, I guess I'd better turn around and head up back down the path and take my medication.

SATCHMO · 12-31-2009, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by right-track

This thread is fascinating me and I was going to wave my cane and post my opinion, but having just read SATCHMO's post, I guess I'd better turn around and head up back down the path and take my medication.

RT by all means don't let me intimidate you. I'm just getting old and cantankerous.

I qualify as a 30 - 40 something as well, which allows me to justifiably spew such rubbish.

right-track · 12-31-2009, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SATCHMO

RT by all means don't let me intimidate you. I'm just getting old and cantankerous.

I qualify as a 30 - 40 something as well, which allows me to justifiably spew such rubbish.

You misunderstand me SATCH.
Like the writer of the opening post, you're right.
shellyboy9 made an interesting and accurate observation, but like you say, it's old news.
In fact, I'm not entirely sure what the point of his post is.
Unless of course he assumes we all need a lesson in music history?

TheBig3 · 12-31-2009, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shellyboy9

By the way, I've never taken a course in music appreciation, although I did play in myriad bands between the ages of 16-35. And I'm no professor pal. Yeah I stunk, and I was just barely good enough to realize it. You know, thumbsucking intellectuals likeTheBig3 raise my hackles.

Well you know what they say about us intellectuals. We're arrogant and you're welcome.

Quote:

Rock is not an offbeat marriage between country and the blues. It was and is coitus between boogie-woogie, acapella harmonies, country (yes), showmanship and a thousand other things. I'm sorry if it was black people who initialized these connections. You think this is not fact? Look it up. Is this racism? Why is it when someone points out that black people invented anything its racism, but when you point, for example, to a white Jesus, its not? This is insanity and arrogance.

First, assigning County to an association with Minstrel shows is assanine. You're moving closer still to white = racist.

I'm well aware there was a vicious racism in rock and roll from roughly the 1950's to the 1970's (remind me again how naming it "rock" is bad), but I'm also aware anyone on this site who loves music already knew that. You don't know how many "Led Zeppelin stole all their music" threads we've had to endure.

But lets mend this bridge, because its not your fault you didn't go back and read the countless posts that have said this already. You're not a professor or an intellectual. What we should do going forward is decide this - now that we're all on the same page here, what should we do with this information exactly?

**Janszoon** · 12-31-2009, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shellyboy9

Most of you believe either Elvis or the Beatles invented rock and roll.

I think not! Everyone knows it was Nickleback.

shellyboy9 · 12-31-2009, 08:53 AM

Yes, perhaps I was wrong on a few levels. The mist of misinformation that settles throughout the Great Quotidian doesn't filter through to every nook and warren, and in this vale most or many seem to clean their windows and tend their gardens (and lawns). That great slouching beast is not this place, and I apologize. But neither is this place that tired field where those tenets do hold sway. Here we are the minority. Yes, I'm new here y'all, so please forgive my off-footedness.
But yeah TheBig3, country music has its beginnings in the old minstrel shows. Much of these were racist, but frankly, in hindsight miles of good came from these cavalcades. The sight of black and white on stage together, even though the few black performers had to wear blackface; the encouragement of the nascent forms of American popular musics (folk and country); the establishment of a true American style of humor and performance which led to vaudeville and the like. These are no small firsts. Music is indeed an evolution of ideas, but it takes someone(s) or something to make the connections.
Truly, I and my friends (some in the business, some not) would sit around, look at black music, and say, OK, here's the next thing. Yeah, that stuff is hit or miss, but we had a lot of hits. We look in our skree pot today and see little or nothing. Obviously music is going somewhere, but its really harder to see, so...
Yeah TheBig3, I extend my hand to you and Tuna, who I unfairly singled out here. And yeah, we're all on the same page. Where do we go from here? To tomorrow man, and I hope we're all there.
cardboard adolescent, on earth we see both. Here, its not the struggle, I believe, between mind and body. It's the struggle for that great middle ground. That's what spirit is. Not the religious kind, or Jungian anima. No, I'm talking about the will toward imagination which creates great things like music. To create, these two things must be reconciled.

shellyboy9 · 12-31-2009, 10:04 AM

So, on to music. At one point in my life both Phillip Glass and Cecil Taylor were close friends of mine. Phillip when he was doing Music in Four Parts. Phillip was poor as dirt, but always complimentary of others music. Cecil was an opinionated curmudgeon, and tough to be around. But watching either perform was revelatory. Both were hellaciously brilliant and fonts of musical information. They had another thing in common. After a few minutes people would walk out of their performances in droves. I remember one performance where Cecil shared the ticket with Oscar Peterson. Oscar played first. When Cecil came on after a few minutes half the audience rose and left. Phillip became mainstream while at 70 Cecil is still a hellion.
Where am I going with this. Well, with music you just can't tell, not really. My friends and I, we made a few lucky guesses. We came from an informed place, but even the stock market crashes. You really can't predict where music or a musician will turn. There are no true oracles.

right-track · 12-31-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shellyboy9

So, on to music. At one point in my life both Phillip Glass and Cecil Taylor were close friends of mine. Phillip when he was doing Music in Four Parts. Phillip was poor as dirt, but always complimentary of others music. Cecil was an opinionated curmudgeon, and tough to be around. But watching either perform was revelatory. Both were hellaciously brilliant and fonts of musical information. They had another thing in common. After a few minutes people would walk out of their performances in droves. I remember one performance where Cecil shared the ticket with Oscar Peterson. Oscar played first. When Cecil came on after a few minutes half the audience rose and left. Phillip became mainstream while at 70 Cecil is still a hellion.
Where am I going with this. Well, with music you just can't tell, not really. My friends and I, we made a few lucky guesses. We came from an informed place, but even the stock market crashes. You really can't predict where music or a musician will turn. There are no true oracles.

Are you a vegan, perchance?

12-31-2009, 04:11 AM	#22 (permalink)
SATCHMO Al Dente Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,708	Well Mr. OP, sir, you do seem to be tilting at windmills so to speak. What is the point that you're trying to make exactly, and whom are you directing that point toward? All of us young naive neophyte music enthusiasts who, of course, really need an esoteric history lesson on the origins of contemporary popular music and any adjunct racial baggage that may go along with it? I'll pass. It's old news buddy, something that many of us gave up dwelling on once we came to the stark, yet paradoxically beautiful realization that life goes on and that music evolves and perpetuates itself with or without the black man providing a barometric reading as to its future course. Every so often we get the disgruntled late 30 to 40-something who feels the need come and wave their cane around at the new breed of whipper-snappers that just won't stay off his lawn. It then becomes my job to walk them back inside, calmly remind them to take their medication, and inform them that there's a Golden Girls marathon on TV Land, all while everyone else burns a pentagram on the lawn to roast their weenies over. I just don't want to see that to happen to you. I really like your lawn. If that all sounds ridiculous it's because that being a member of this forum for almost 5 years has taught me that spewing such ridiculous nonsense is really my only line of defense in situations such as this. Logic and reasoning never culminate toward a mutual understanding, peaceful coexistence, or even an agreement to simply disagree. No, it just perpetuates that pedantic fudge river further and further down the hill...closer and closer to the village...closer to your lawn. I just don't want to see that happen to you. I really like your lawn. Golden Girls is on.

12-31-2009, 04:48 AM	#23 (permalink)
right-track Atchin' Akai Join Date: May 2005 Location: Unamerica Posts: 8,723	This thread is fascinating me and I was going to wave my cane and post my opinion, but having just read SATCHMO's post, I guess I'd better turn around and head up back down the path and take my medication.

12-31-2009, 08:53 AM	#28 (permalink)
shellyboy9 Groupie Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 9	Yes, perhaps I was wrong on a few levels. The mist of misinformation that settles throughout the Great Quotidian doesn't filter through to every nook and warren, and in this vale most or many seem to clean their windows and tend their gardens (and lawns). That great slouching beast is not this place, and I apologize. But neither is this place that tired field where those tenets do hold sway. Here we are the minority. Yes, I'm new here y'all, so please forgive my off-footedness. But yeah TheBig3, country music has its beginnings in the old minstrel shows. Much of these were racist, but frankly, in hindsight miles of good came from these cavalcades. The sight of black and white on stage together, even though the few black performers had to wear blackface; the encouragement of the nascent forms of American popular musics (folk and country); the establishment of a true American style of humor and performance which led to vaudeville and the like. These are no small firsts. Music is indeed an evolution of ideas, but it takes someone(s) or something to make the connections. Truly, I and my friends (some in the business, some not) would sit around, look at black music, and say, OK, here's the next thing. Yeah, that stuff is hit or miss, but we had a lot of hits. We look in our skree pot today and see little or nothing. Obviously music is going somewhere, but its really harder to see, so... Yeah TheBig3, I extend my hand to you and Tuna, who I unfairly singled out here. And yeah, we're all on the same page. Where do we go from here? To tomorrow man, and I hope we're all there. cardboard adolescent, on earth we see both. Here, its not the struggle, I believe, between mind and body. It's the struggle for that great middle ground. That's what spirit is. Not the religious kind, or Jungian anima. No, I'm talking about the will toward imagination which creates great things like music. To create, these two things must be reconciled.

12-31-2009, 10:04 AM	#29 (permalink)
shellyboy9 Groupie Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 9	So, on to music. At one point in my life both Phillip Glass and Cecil Taylor were close friends of mine. Phillip when he was doing Music in Four Parts. Phillip was poor as dirt, but always complimentary of others music. Cecil was an opinionated curmudgeon, and tough to be around. But watching either perform was revelatory. Both were hellaciously brilliant and fonts of musical information. They had another thing in common. After a few minutes people would walk out of their performances in droves. I remember one performance where Cecil shared the ticket with Oscar Peterson. Oscar played first. When Cecil came on after a few minutes half the audience rose and left. Phillip became mainstream while at 70 Cecil is still a hellion. Where am I going with this. Well, with music you just can't tell, not really. My friends and I, we made a few lucky guesses. We came from an informed place, but even the stock market crashes. You really can't predict where music or a musician will turn. There are no true oracles.