The louder the lie, the better believed

cardboard adolescent · 12-30-2009, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shellyboy9

For me, cardboard adolescent, Cage and most of the other de-constuctionists of modernity including Wuorinen, Partch, Varese, Scriabin et.al. are the distractions. People not only want, but need melody. Our bodies thrum to natures universal melodies and harmonies. The downfall of classical music parallels the rise of atonality; and the rise of rock and roll. It's not coincidence.

That's the point, eh. Our bodies refuse to follow the course of our minds. I think the body is a distraction for the mind, to avoid its own nullity. Indecideable, perhaps. Thanks for responding though, wasn't expecting that

duga · 12-30-2009, 11:29 PM

i don't think there has been a decline in tonality...i think the more and more people explore music the MORE melodies and harmonies we discover. Music started as atonal and was simply rhythmic...something to dance to. classical music was a result of discovering melody and what you interpret as a decline in quality i interpret as humans discovering melody so long ago and now studying its infinite complexities.

like i said, the good stuff you just have to look for. popular music is crap simply because it is the same thing we have heard over and over again.

shellyboy9 · 12-30-2009, 11:36 PM

By the way, I've never taken a course in music appreciation, although I did play in myriad bands between the ages of 16-35. And I'm no professor pal. Yeah I stunk, and I was just barely good enough to realize it. You know, thumbsucking intellectuals likeTheBig3 raise my hackles. Rock is not an offbeat marriage between country and the blues. It was and is coitus between boogie-woogie, acapella harmonies, country (yes), showmanship and a thousand other things. I'm sorry if it was black people who initialized these connections. You think this is not fact? Look it up. Is this racism? Why is it when someone points out that black people invented anything its racism, but when you point, for example, to a white Jesus, its not? This is insanity and arrogance. I'm not anti-anyone. Classical music is my first love. Jazz is my second. Rock is a wonderful pastiche where the true and rarer talent is mass appreciation of personality, not musicianship. Real musicianship is a rare talent, but not like the ability to make people like you; but I digress. "The real racism here comes from needing to assign race elements to the experience at all". Really? How many times have you heard, yeah black people invented rock and roll, but white people made it better. Why call it "rock", and not R and B which it all really is. Why the need for this distinction. Why the clear demarcations on radio stations. Clearly experiencing the music is fine as long as the lines are drawn. What was that "disco sucks" stuff about. The examples are copious and outstanding. I'm not the Pollyanna here. Explainers, apologists, and obfuscatory dullards abound. People, enjoy what you like, but come from an informed place. Thanx duga, gotcha. cardboard adolescent, you're a nihilist, but you're my kind of nihilist.

CanwllCorfe · 12-30-2009, 11:50 PM

Well I listen to Trance.. which supposedly got started in the late 80s by a man named Klaus Schulze.

He's awesome. I don't know much about Rock so uhh.. you could be spot on! Good luck with that

Neapolitan · 12-30-2009, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shellyboy9

Frankly, my main point is about misinformation. I'm more worried however about the stagnancy of popular music, including Hip-Hop which has remained unchanged for 15 years.

Hip-Hop isn't a musical genre, Hip-Hop has a four fold mission statement which is tagging, b-boying, MC-ing and DJ-ing. Whoever coined the word and and set forth it's goal brilliantly left out any indication that music should be involved.

~~bungalow~~ · 12-31-2009, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shellyboy9

By the way, I've never taken a course in music appreciation, although I did play in myriad bands between the ages of 16-35. And I'm no professor pal. Yeah I stunk, and I was just barely good enough to realize it. You know, thumbsucking intellectuals likeTheBig3 raise my hackles. Rock is not an offbeat marriage between country and the blues. It was and is coitus between boogie-woogie, acapella harmonies, country (yes), showmanship and a thousand other things. I'm sorry if it was black people who initialized these connections. You think this is not fact? Look it up. Is this racism? Why is it when someone points out that black people invented anything its racism, but when you point, for example, to a white Jesus, its not? This is insanity and arrogance. I'm not anti-anyone. Classical music is my first love. Jazz is my second. Rock is a wonderful pastiche where the true and rarer talent is mass appreciation of personality, not musicianship. Real musicianship is a rare talent, but not like the ability to make people like you; but I digress. "The real racism here comes from needing to assign race elements to the experience at all". Really? How many times have you heard, yeah black people invented rock and roll, but white people made it better. Why call it "rock", and not R and B which it all really is. Why the need for this distinction. Why the clear demarcations on radio stations. Clearly experiencing the music is fine as long as the lines are drawn. What was that "disco sucks" stuff about. The examples are copious and outstanding. I'm not the Pollyanna here. Explainers, apologists, and obfuscatory dullards abound. People, enjoy what you like, but come from an informed place. Thanx duga, gotcha. cardboard adolescent, you're a nihilist, but you're my kind of nihilist.

The point is you aren't telling anyone here anything new. And you're being very patronizing about it.

shellyboy9 · 12-31-2009, 12:29 AM

Okay, bugalow, maybe you're right and I apologize for being overbearing. But you know, where there's one Tuna there's a thousand; but yeah, guy, enough. I'm a bit intrigued cardboard adolescent, yours seems to be the age old tussle between the Apollonian and the Dionysian. Both sides seem to muddy the fact of simple being. For me, music has always been that place where that age old struggle can be put aside. Life seems such work, and I don't want to have to work to appreciate my music. Well, another day all.

cardboard adolescent · 12-31-2009, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shellyboy9

cardboard adolescent, you're a nihilist, but you're my kind of nihilist.

you're my new favorite

midnight rain · 12-31-2009, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shellyboy9

Okay, bugalow, maybe you're right and I apologize for being overbearing. But you know, where there's one Tuna there's a thousand; but yeah, guy, enough. I'm a bit intrigued cardboard adolescent, yours seems to be the age old tussle between the Apollonian and the Dionysian. Both sides seem to muddy the fact of simple being. For me, music has always been that place where that age old struggle can be put aside. Life seems such work, and I don't want to have to work to appreciate my music. Well, another day all.

What are you suggesting? That I'm ill-informed? Furthermore, why are you singling me out? I said little more than that most members here knew about what you were talking about.

duga · 12-31-2009, 12:38 AM

i enjoy music without all the historical implications just fine...

i give up...

12-30-2009, 11:50 PM	#14 (permalink)
CanwllCorfe Quiet Man in the Corner Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Pocono Mountains Posts: 2,480	Well I listen to Trance.. which supposedly got started in the late 80s by a man named Klaus Schulze. He's awesome. I don't know much about Rock so uhh.. you could be spot on! Good luck with that __________________ Your eyes were never yet let in to see the majesty and riches of the mind, but dwell in darkness; for your God is blind.

12-30-2009, 11:29 PM	#12 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	i don't think there has been a decline in tonality...i think the more and more people explore music the MORE melodies and harmonies we discover. Music started as atonal and was simply rhythmic...something to dance to. classical music was a result of discovering melody and what you interpret as a decline in quality i interpret as humans discovering melody so long ago and now studying its infinite complexities. like i said, the good stuff you just have to look for. popular music is crap simply because it is the same thing we have heard over and over again.

12-30-2009, 11:36 PM	#13 (permalink)
shellyboy9 Groupie Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 9	By the way, I've never taken a course in music appreciation, although I did play in myriad bands between the ages of 16-35. And I'm no professor pal. Yeah I stunk, and I was just barely good enough to realize it. You know, thumbsucking intellectuals likeTheBig3 raise my hackles. Rock is not an offbeat marriage between country and the blues. It was and is coitus between boogie-woogie, acapella harmonies, country (yes), showmanship and a thousand other things. I'm sorry if it was black people who initialized these connections. You think this is not fact? Look it up. Is this racism? Why is it when someone points out that black people invented anything its racism, but when you point, for example, to a white Jesus, its not? This is insanity and arrogance. I'm not anti-anyone. Classical music is my first love. Jazz is my second. Rock is a wonderful pastiche where the true and rarer talent is mass appreciation of personality, not musicianship. Real musicianship is a rare talent, but not like the ability to make people like you; but I digress. "The real racism here comes from needing to assign race elements to the experience at all". Really? How many times have you heard, yeah black people invented rock and roll, but white people made it better. Why call it "rock", and not R and B which it all really is. Why the need for this distinction. Why the clear demarcations on radio stations. Clearly experiencing the music is fine as long as the lines are drawn. What was that "disco sucks" stuff about. The examples are copious and outstanding. I'm not the Pollyanna here. Explainers, apologists, and obfuscatory dullards abound. People, enjoy what you like, but come from an informed place. Thanx duga, gotcha. cardboard adolescent, you're a nihilist, but you're my kind of nihilist.

12-31-2009, 12:29 AM	#17 (permalink)
shellyboy9 Groupie Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 9	Okay, bugalow, maybe you're right and I apologize for being overbearing. But you know, where there's one Tuna there's a thousand; but yeah, guy, enough. I'm a bit intrigued cardboard adolescent, yours seems to be the age old tussle between the Apollonian and the Dionysian. Both sides seem to muddy the fact of simple being. For me, music has always been that place where that age old struggle can be put aside. Life seems such work, and I don't want to have to work to appreciate my music. Well, another day all.

12-31-2009, 12:38 AM	#20 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	i enjoy music without all the historical implications just fine... i give up...