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Old 11-19-2010, 03:27 PM   #21 (permalink)
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If the Beatles hadn't existed maybe Ray Davis would have got the credit & success he deserved.
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Old 11-19-2010, 05:57 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Its like saying that if Alexander Graham Bell wasn't born, telephones never would have been invented and perfected. Someone would have gotten around to it eventually. But no one discredits him for his accomplishment either.
I disagree. We might assume that because we can't imagine life without them, but why does that mean it would have been figured out eventually regardless? It'd be a total butterfly effect and society would have developed in a completely different direction.

That being said, when someone is of a certain school of thought and carries that thought further, it's far more likely that eventually someone else would have carried that same thought to the point of inventing a telephone.

That's how it is with most things. People are influenced by other inventions or ideas and simply elaborate on them. So in that sense, I'm sure we'd have something very similar to the telephone (if not the telephone we all know) because Morse Code and other inventions and movements were in place and being expounded on in that time.

In regards to music, it's silly to argue that "somebody would just do it anyway" because, again, that butterfly effect would mean that it may have taken longer to happen and the musical world (and as a result, society) would have been different in many ways. So, no, your favorite band probably wouldn't exist. But you wouldn't care.
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Old 11-19-2010, 07:50 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I disagree. We might assume that because we can't imagine life without them, but why does that mean it would have been figured out eventually regardless? It'd be a total butterfly effect and society would have developed in a completely different direction.

That being said, when someone is of a certain school of thought and carries that thought further, it's far more likely that eventually someone else would have carried that same thought to the point of inventing a telephone.

That's how it is with most things. People are influenced by other inventions or ideas and simply elaborate on them. So in that sense, I'm sure we'd have something very similar to the telephone (if not the telephone we all know) because Morse Code and other inventions and movements were in place and being expounded on in that time.

In regards to music, it's silly to argue that "somebody would just do it anyway" because, again, that butterfly effect would mean that it may have taken longer to happen and the musical world (and as a result, society) would have been different in many ways. So, no, your favorite band probably wouldn't exist. But you wouldn't care.
OK...if you wanna get all philosophical about it, the bolded part I would agree with. That's pretty much what I was getting at anyhow. Obviously things wouldn't have happened the exact same way, or resulted in the exact same output (whether we're talking about the telephone or your favorite band). But yeah, some variation of what we have now would surely have been conceived and expounded on.
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Old 11-19-2010, 08:58 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Conan View Post
I disagree. We might assume that because we can't imagine life without them, but why does that mean it would have been figured out eventually regardless? It'd be a total butterfly effect and society would have developed in a completely different direction.

That being said, when someone is of a certain school of thought and carries that thought further, it's far more likely that eventually someone else would have carried that same thought to the point of inventing a telephone.

That's how it is with most things. People are influenced by other inventions or ideas and simply elaborate on them. So in that sense, I'm sure we'd have something very similar to the telephone (if not the telephone we all know) because Morse Code and other inventions and movements were in place and being expounded on in that time.

In regards to music, it's silly to argue that "somebody would just do it anyway" because, again, that butterfly effect would mean that it may have taken longer to happen and the musical world (and as a result, society) would have been different in many ways. So, no, your favorite band probably wouldn't exist. But you wouldn't care.
When I read what you wrote, you're basically saying that because of the way things happened along our timeline, that only certain bands could have come up with the ideas they had to have made the type of influence we have. My question is, why wouldn't all musically inclined human beings have that capacity? Even if it were slightly different? In fact, I'm pretty sure a huge margin of a lot of creative and groundbreaking musicians existed outside the fame that catapulted the stars we know into the musical history books and created influence for future generations of musicians. How do you know that if the unknowns had gotten a lucky break like the one's we know, that they wouldn't have met or exceeded the standards we're used to?

Not to mention the fact that these musical time periods had pretty specific influences from what was happening around them. It's a pretty safe bet that out of the multitudes of musicians and bands forming at any given time, at least a few of them would be both influenced by their surroundings and lucky enough to get signed and spammed across the world in order for other people to ever refer to them as some of our most enduring influences.

I think maybe you're looking at this too specifically. No one is arguing that a specific band comprised of specific people would or would not be here had their influences been different people. The real question is, would it really matter?

I don't think it would. The spark can come from anyone. If it's bright enough, it will catch.
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Old 11-20-2010, 02:52 AM   #25 (permalink)
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In other words, rather than being a high point of rock, the beatles destroyed rock 'n' roll, turning it from a vibrant black )or integrated) dance music into a vehicle for white pap and pretension.
That's from How The Beatles destroyed Rock 'n' Roll. I haven't read the whole thing but I've read the first chapter and my father has heard the author talk before so I've heard a lot about it that way. I think it's interesting.

I guess you can read it on google books too.
How the Beatles destroyed rock 'n ... - Google Books
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Old 11-20-2010, 06:39 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Sure sounds like he's influenced by the entire Electro trend, because that entire song is nothing I haven't heard before.

I do realize you were probably being sarcastic. I just wanted to further support your case.
i actually wasn't being sarcastic he really believes he has no influences. he told me influences are crutches for stupid people with no originality. also he hates indie music he only enjoys mainstream music. and if it wasn't already obvious he's a douche to everyone on the site that doesn't completely agree with him.
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Old 11-20-2010, 06:41 AM   #27 (permalink)
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So it's less that he has no influences, and more that he refuses to acknwledge those that he has.
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Old 11-20-2010, 06:42 AM   #28 (permalink)
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So it's less that he has no influences, and more that he refuses to acknwledge those that he has.
i think that's true about everyone who says they have no influences.
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Old 11-20-2010, 07:04 AM   #29 (permalink)
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agreed. The only way i can think of that someone could have no influences is if they'd never heard any music ever in their life, and they recreated the entire idea from scratch themselves. Otherwise, all the little hooks, riffs, style, sounds... everything that every song and tune is lodges in your head somewhere, and comes out in your music whether you like it or not.
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Old 11-20-2010, 07:27 AM   #30 (permalink)
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agreed. The only way i can think of that someone could have no influences is if they'd never heard any music ever in their life, and they recreated the entire idea from scratch themselves. Otherwise, all the little hooks, riffs, style, sounds... everything that every song and tune is lodges in your head somewhere, and comes out in your music whether you like it or not.
the closest thing to that is August Rush and even he probably had influences of some sort.
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