I hate to say it, but OccultHawk is just coming off as an elitist. I mean, I'm sure if their music sounded exactly the same, and Beefheart was the one who broke out, and Zappa was the one to become a cult hero then he'd be switching the names. With that said, Zappa funded Trout Mask Replica out of his own wallet, and obviously as a personal choice not a business decision. Cause really, I doubt he was reeling in the dough over it.

If you like Beefheart better as a musician, there's reasons why. Maybe his subtlety, maybe his focus on creating an original product rather than pisstaking popular music, an incessant doo-wop parodies. Doesn't matter. Zappa I think deserves a slight nod of respect for basically being the one to support Beefheart when the industry and nobody else in it really gave a ****.

That said, I forgive him since he admitted Sun Ra's absolute dominance.

wow! Freak Out!! is really good

I personally don't care for it as much. I felt 'Absolutely Free' was a million times better.



/\ utterly ingenious utterly offensive masterpiece

Frank Zappa for this.

That's how I got into Zappa & The Mothers. Heard Freak Out, said "wow, this is really good!" and then started listening to more Mothers albums.
Before I knew it, I was hooked!
I've been happily addicted to that music for years with no noticeable side effects. :)

I've used My Head is My Only House Unless it Rains to help me make it through life. There have been times where I've listened to that song over and over again for hours and hours.

^ While a lot of this is true, imo Zappa`s personality isn`t always hilarious or charming. For me a lot of his albums are spoiled by attempts at humour that are only funny first time around. Elsewhere, Zappa`s comments, musical whimsey, even his tone of voice often come across as superior and patronising. We get it, Frank, you`re an inventive musician and you`ve heard of Stravinski, but why do we have suffer for that ?

Hot Rats , though, is a fabulous album, where for once Zappa`s not playing games or trying to shock us with his sexually explicit lyrics. Chronologically and stylistically, Burnt Weeny Sandwich comes pretty close, but even so, it`s still marred by the musical pranks that Zappa somehow can`t resist.

At the other extreme of sincerity, Beefheart has a passionate delivery that sounds like he`s trying to placate some inner demons by wailing out about his crazy vision of the world. Despite that, what Skaligojura says is true too :-

So, two musicians, both brilliant, both flawed, but for me Beefheart wins, if only because he has so many good albums that I can`t choose a favourite: one day it`s Strictly Personal, then it`s TMR, and then I go for Spotlight Kid.

^ No, what`s really embarrassing is that I`m voting the same way that this guy did !

i've just got most of the Mothers' stuff and I've had We're Only In It For the Money and Hot Rats for some time

i would say that the attacks on love songs on Freak Out! are spot-on and voices my own dissent towards this kind of stuff, but on Money, the only bits that grabbed me were the musique concrete pieces and the two What's the Ugliest Part of Your Body?

Hot Rats is ace, though, and Wiilie the Pimp rawks

I don't feel the same way as I never felt the target of his ridicule or boasts. Rather, it was always something I enjoyed from him. I can certainly imagine why someone might be bothered by it though. It's obvious that the guy had high thoughts about himself!

Hot Rats is indeed brilliant and Willie the Pimp should appeal to both camps in this thread as it's got Beefheart on vocals. :p:

I feel like Beefheart may be the more interesting avant-gardist of the two, but that Zappa is the more interesting person, rock musician, jazz musician, comedian, producer and more. Overall, I have more love for Zappa.

I actually have a habit of doing the same exact thing when I am getting into a particular artist or band. :laughing:

I usually go over and over certain songs I like on my favorite albums, until I memorize all the lyrics and I'm able to anticipate all the different chord structure/changes and riffs (by heart). :)

I knew we were gonna be bestest friends-

see you at the sleepober :love:

The music of Frank Zappa is what eventually led me to listen to Captain Beefheart, so for that I'm very grateful! However, I think the Captain has definitely got to be my choice here.

Zappa has some astonishingly good music, but wow, there is so much of it. It seemed like literally every idea he ever had went into a record somewhere. I found the vast stack of material quite intimidating, and difficult to perform any kind of quality control on! All I know is that the best songs I heard from him are on the Hot Rats album, and my favourite on there is probably Willie the Pimp, which is made great by Captain Beefheart.

A couple of my favourite Zappa songs

Willie the Pimp
Camarillo Brillo
Tryin' to Grow a Chin
Strictly Genteel


A couple of my favourite Beefheart songs

Big Eyed Beans From Venus
Odd Jobs
Safe as Milk
Moonlight on Vermont
Tropical Hotdog Night

A lot of music started to seem quite bland in comparison after listening to either of these 2 legendary musicians though. They've both contributed a lot to my adoration of the music I listen to.

^ In the end, I guess Zappa just wouldn`t be Zappa without the sense of humour. Here, for instance, he uses it to wonderful effect, even though he is outnumbered and under attack in a debate about freedom of speech. It`s a joy to watch how well he argues his case:-



Is he, against his own advice, wearing brown shoes ?

^ Yes, I have that problem with Zappa too.

Definitely Captain Beefheart! Trout Mask Replica is one of the greatest albums I've ever heard. :)

I like Frank Zappa, too, but Beefheart was just out of this world!

For me, this question boils down to "Hot Rats and We're Only In It for the Money vs. Trout Mask Replica", as I know little else about the artists (except that Zappa's children have awesome names) and the rest of their catalogs.

So I voted Zappa

Haha, the 1st time I heard this I was about 17 and I actually thought the voices were instead some strange
musical instrument.


Oh, although I do adore the Captain.

Gotta vote for Zappa.

Oh, Frank Zappa for sure. Although Trout Mask Replica has probably affected me more than any individual Zappa album, taken as a whole, Zappa is my man. He has such variety and although the albums aren't always great they are almost always interesting. Even if it's just to see what direction he takes an idea in, I find it completely worth it. He was also the first guitarist I found interesting based on how they played the instrument, which just doesn't happen very much for me.

I need more exposure to Beefheart but I can't imagine him beating out my love of Zappa.

I like Zappa more as a person, but I love Beefheart's music MUCH more, especially Trout Mask Replica. TMR, like it or not, completely flipped the musical universe upon its head.

I feel sorry that people interpret Don as such an egotistical individual -- he was truly gifted creatively but seriously could not give a damn what others saw in him.

If Trout Mask Replica was recorded with HALF the technical expertise that's exercised in common practice today it would have had an even more momentous impact (as far as general exposure goes).

I love them both to their deaths...I am extremely happy I got exposed to Zappa as a child and happier still that I got to experience Beefheart before he died.

But I will never, EVER question why Beefheart made the choice he did in 1982 (setting aside the world of music permanently) -- he was clearly plagued by terrible inner demons that nobody here could ever fully appreciate. That he had the wherewithal enough to choose life is for me something I wholeheartedly endorse.

Beefheart for me. Very close though. But it would be fair to say I have listened to more Beefheart albums than Zappa.

In all fairness, I respect Beefheart 100% musically. However, history tells me he was kind of a cock.

I mean, he had a reputation for never being able to hear his vocals even if he screamed at the top of his lungs. Even to the point of throwing violent fits.

Furthermore, the way he treated a lot of his band members was abysmal. I think in particular John 'Drumbo' French who not only is a remarkably underrated drummer(Listen to 'Mirror Man', it's quite astonishing), but also apparently the transcriber, and coordinator of instruments on Trout Mask Replica.

With that said, it bears nothing on my appreciation of the man as a musician, and shouldn't effect one's decision when voting. Just saying, he wasn't known for his kindness.

I love them both for different reasons and they're for different moods! I find it easier to listen to Zappa though so listen to him more than Beefheart.

It's the Captain's birthday today. Happy birthday Captain.
I voted for Don because his music has had such a more profound effect on me than any other artist or band I had ever heard before. I love Zappa to death though, Apostrophe and One Size Fits All are right up there with TMR and LMDOB, plus without Zappers, I wouldn't've gotten into Captain Beefheart.
If I could vote Bongo Fury I would, but Beef takes the cake (pun).

I got into beefheart before Zappa but I went with Zappa. I just think he was quite a bit more talented than beefheart. I love zappa's guitar playing. I like Beefhearts lyrics more, though. I just think zappa is the overall better musician.

I go with Frank Zappa. He is a major genius.

I don't think he was on Zappa's level of genius.

Zappa did withhold quite the level of musical intelligence, but Beefheart's creativity aspired to that same level of ingenuity. Zappa still used song structure in most of his works, but Beefheart abandoned that post entirely.

Not saying that this is the case with Beefheart and Zappa, but people so often seem to assume that the more avantgarde something is, the more rules it breaks, the more difficult it is to do - the better/smarter it is. That's not always true. When it comes to music, basically anyone can make avantgarde music, however good it turns out, but not everyone can write a beautiful piece of music. Not saying you don't get creds for being strange, but I definitely think people in general overrate it.

Well you try to play 4'33" like John Cage and see how well your theory holds up.

Absolutely.

Zappa may have used structure, but his songs were still very unique and were completely different from anything else of his time.

It's an interesting piece, but I find it a bit overrated. Basically, it's a funny idea, like an M. Night Shyamalan twist.

Same here. It's kind of like Cage is trolling the listener. I agree with what you said about talent and such, though. My favourite songs by Marc Ribot are not very hard to play yet they are brilliant pieces.

My brother doesn't know how to play guitar, but when he does he plays it in an avant-garde way that has no structure. However, that doesn't make it good. Just because something is experimental and goes beyond the rules doesn't instantly make it good. I'll take Zappa over Keiji Haino anyday.

I have to go with Zappa. I heard a Beefheart album many years ago that I loved and thought I have to get some Beefheart. Unfortunately I didn't get the name of the album and every Beefheart album I have heard since has been a disappointment.

Describe the album and I may be able to help you find it.

Yikes. It was a long time ago so a bit of a hazy memory but it was kind of Tom Waits singing blues on acid.

Im on da Zappa boat .... why because he just wrote better songs and has like wut like 30 albums !!!!!!! LOL... plus he had Terry bozzio on drums which was a MOnster