Frank Zappa or Captain Beefheart?
 

I'm sure you know the similarities (and differences) between the two. They were both friends in high school, they both collaborated on an album (Bongo Fury), Zappa produced Trout Mask Replica, and they both shared similarities in musical composition in that they both had a sort of "silliness" about their sound and lyrical content as well as a hankering for experimentation. Needless to say, however, they were both VERY different in their musicianship... For instance, Zappa went into chamber music and other genres and had a much more expansive musical career (in both length and variety) while Beefheart stopped after twenty some-odd years to do his abstract expressionist paintings. And here I am rambling about two musicians that you all know a lot about (or at least I hope you do), and I should shut up and get to the God damn point... which one do you prefer: Frank Zappa or Captain Beefheart?

Try to keep it civil. The creation of this thread was out of shear boredom and mindless curiosity... Also, it wouldn't hurt to name your favorite album by either one of them.

Captain Beefheart. Did you ever notice "Abba Zaba" is "apa ZAPPA" upside-down :confused:

Voted Beefheart... Trout Mask Replica is my favorite album of his (although, it's pretty much tied with his first four albums and Doc at the Radar Station), and this is my favorite review of it...

"This album is based on a lie- instead of a replica trout mask, the photo is actually of an authentic, real, trout mask. This is an affront to native trouts like myself, since the sacred holy traditions of trouts hold that actual trout masks should not be displayed in public. Captain Beefheart (Beef Heart? or Bee Fart?) tricked the trout nation when he agreed to use a replica on the album cover, and then went ahead and used a real trout mask. This is very politically incorrect in the trout streams of America (where one can go trout fishing in America. Ha ha). For this reason, I have boycotted this album. // PS - The music is great."

He/she voted one star for some reason... Either way, I got a good laugh from reading it.

gotta go with Zappa, pretty much because i'm more likely to want to listen to his music.

Gotta go with Zappa here too .. The man was a genius. On popular albums like Over-nite Sensation, every song is a wealth of musical ideas and Zappa was that rare kind of person who was not only amazingly creative, funny and charming, but he could write all those ideas down on paper and find people supremely skilled enough to play his compositions. His music is engaging (much more so than Beefheart's for me) and the guy was hilarious.

Here's a funny fact. Tina Turner and the Ikettes did backing vocals for Over-Nite Sensation .. For an interesting example, listen to their contribution on Montana just after about 3:20 minutes in. :)



edit :

The lyrics for their part might be hard to catch up on. Here they are :

I'm pluckin' the ol' Dennil Floss
That's growin' on the prairie
Pluckin' the floss!
I plucked all day an' all nite an' all Afternoon...
I'm ridin' a small tiny hoss
(His name is MIGHTY LITTLE)
He's a good hoss
Even though He's a bit dinky to strap a big saddle or
Blanket on anyway
He's a bit dinky to strap a big saddle or
Blanket on anyway
Anyway
I'm pluckin' the ol' Dennil Floss
Even if you think it is a little silly, folks
I don't care if you think it's silly, folks
I don't care if you think it's silly, folks

I prefer Zappa's music with the Mothers during the 1960's to mid 1970's, to Captain Beefheart's music during the same period.
However, I prefer Captain Beefheart's music from the late 1970's to early 80's to Zappa's music during that time.

haven't really heard that much Zappa, I'll go with Beefheart

fave Zappa - Hot Rats
fave Beefheart - Lick My Decals Off, Baby

Beefheart is so much better this can pretty much be used as a litmus test to judge a person's understanding of music. It gets into an area so clear cut it's no longer a matter of opinion. The one main thing that gives Zappa serious credibility is his association with Beefheart. Zappa did some really cool stuff and I respect him but Beefheart must be honored with the deepest kind of reverence reserved for a very select few musicians. If you don't vote for Beefheart in the poll you should feel embarrassed. The difference is that profound.

Beefheart, without hesitation for me.

I've never got into Zappa, despite giving a great deal of attention to an admittedly vast back catalogue. The fact is he's never made an album that got me as much as Safe as Milk, TMR and LMDO,B have.

Favourite is Safe as Milk.

Zappa's best is Hot Rats.

I went with Zappa. In a lot of ways, I adore Captain Beefheart, but feel his influence/personality often outweigh the quality of his musical output. Beefheart was a true original, and a genius in many ways, but basically hit his limitations early on.

Essentially, Beefheart had his thing that he perfected for Trout Mask Replica, and polished with Lick My Decals Off, but I think he really failed to go anywhere from there. As ingenious as a lot of the subtle values of his work, once you get past those it's all just basically all just off timed blues with abstract lyrics.

Zappa consistently changed his sound from year to year to year and seemed to have a pretty good grip on what he was doing. He has his great albums, and his stinkers, but he continued to evolve his sound throughout. Beefheart's only attempt at evolution after "Lick My Decals Off" was a failed attempt at a commercial sound for years ended in just a reversion to the Trout Mask Replica sound. (Bat Chain Puller I believe was actually all material written between Trout Mask Replica and Lick my Decals off, Baby.")

Plus, I've never been keen on Beefheart's ridiculous ego, and insane obsession with having to mix the instrument tracks down to nothing so his, admittedly awesome, voice could be heard.

Both geniuses, both innovators, but I feel Zappa is a significantly more poignant musician who would only be overshadowed by Beefheart due to his underdog value.

Explain please...

While I will not deny that Frank Zappa had a far more eclectic discography than Beefheart, I will have to disagree with you on the "off timed blues" comment. I think there's a little more to albums like Doc at the Radar Station and Shiny Beast (Bat Chain Puller) than that... but we're all entitled to our own opinions... Ice Cream for Crow, on the other hand, was rather unimpressive (to me that is).

Except for the fact that TMR didn't have the punkish abrasiveness of Doc at the Radar Station, nor the more controlled sound of the instrumentals of Shiny Beast (Bat Chain Puller). Not to mention, I feel that Shiny Beast had more variety in terms of his use of different instruments as well as the album's overall song composition.

I guess the two albums just have different atmospheres than Lick My Decals Off Baby and Trout Mask Replica (I can't completely put my finger on it).

Zappa had a hell of an ego, too... don't forget that. However, I do agree with you on how Beefheart mixed some of the music. He somewhat stopped that with his last three releases, though.

Also, I thought you didn't care about the artist, but more about the art itself? (Remember our chat about Charles Manson and Joe Meek?)


How is it not opinion? Music is entirely subjective... and just because someone prefers one musician over another doesn't mean they're wrong... nor should they feel embarrassed.

By the way, I took the time to bold the comments that I felt didn't make any sense and completely took me by surprise...

True, but that's why I point it out, though. I feel a lot of people might unfairly lean towards Beefheart for the reason that he has a hipper stigma to him.

Beefheart has his advantages over Zappa, definitely. Especially in terms of having a lot more subtlety. Still feel that Beefheart hit his limitations after Lick my Decals Off. Frankly, his bag of tricks just ran out.

Beefheart (just for Trout Mask Replica alone), Zappa had never appealed to me maybe as he can seem too flippant or looking to be weird just for the sake of it.

OccultHawk, I have to admit I didn't expect you to write such an incredibly douchy post. I was hoping you were joking, but unfortunately I don't detect any sarcasm, only arrogance and a real moronic opinion without any justification or reasoning behind it. The only irony I detect is that you you write anyone choosing Zappa in the poll should be embarassed. You should be embarassed, dude.

It's like when people try to say Stevie Ray Vaughn is better than Hendrix. There's nothing there for me to respect or consider.

Except Zappa never tried to emulate Beefheart (like Vaughn did with Hendrix). Zappa did his own thing...

As if being one of the most competent, creative and exciting figures in rock history isn't good enough, you seem to have managed to miss the question posed in the first post.

And your reply is that everyone who votes for Zappa knows has less understanding of music and should be embarassed. So, I have a friend who's a professional musician. He adores Beefheart, but not as much as he loves Zappa. I guess you feel that makes him a little less professional and that he should feel embarassed?

I had to vote Zappa although i love Captain Beefhart
As far as the debate between the musicianship of Zappa and Beefhart go I'd say they are both pretty equal although i find Zappa's music more enjoyable

Gonna Be completely truthful here and say I'm a huge fan of Zappa read a couple biographies, Favorite album would have to be the Mother's Fre4k out. But i don't know much of Beefhearts stuff, heard a couple colaborations with zappa. So when i get off work tonight i'm gonna go download his stuff. I'll let ya know what i think of his stuff when i dig in.

i just got most of Zappa's work with the Mothers

they're interesting, to say the least

Well, another one is people who think Metallica is better than Slayer.

I've met a lot of professional musicians with terrible taste. If you count music teachers as professionals I think I've only met one who knew **** about music at all and had any taste.

So a person who likes Beefheart and Zappa, but prefers Zappa .. Has less understanding of music and should be embarassed for having a terrible taste?

Zappa, when he's doing stuff he is good at, is good (comedy, jazz, psychedelia)

but he should have stayed away from pop altogether

Yes. That is what I have said and is what I believe.

on another note

faves by each

Beefheart- Clear Spot
Zappa- Freak Out

Other Zappa records I like are Apostrophe ('), and Frank Zappa Meets the Mothers of Prevention

The one where he samples a reverend quoting the Mentors to congress is fantastic!

Frank Zappa - Porn wars - YouTube


bend up and smell my anal vapor your face is my toilet paper lol

The Mentors-Golden showers - YouTube

The fact is..Vaughan's style "was/is" more Technical when compared to the style of Hendrix. Does that make Vaughan a better artist than Hendrix? Or does it suggest that Hendrix is better than Vaughan, just because Vaughan covered Hendrix?

You can tell Vaughan's version of "Little Wing" as soon as you hear it because of the more Technical and Sequencing style applied. A much cleaner sound and dynamics (I might add) on the recording. But Hendix has the best dynamics as an artist. Hendrix was all "Feel". (he played through the guitar). But aquired a more Orthodox style than Vaughan's technical ability.;)
:laughing: Do you mean "personal preference"?

I prefer Zappa and Metallica.

I'm not going to reply to any posts like that because people like this have already dug their own graves with anyone who has the slightest understanding.

Well I want to be buried in a Kiss casket like Dimebag Darrell!

:laughing: "Jesus God"!

Your stock is really low but that helps bring it up a bit.

Who in the "Holy Hell" are you? What in the "Fukk" are you on?

And what in the "Hell" do you mean by.."Stock"?

I love the way you Americans talk, its like a foreign language half the time:beer:

I'm dehumanizing you by equating you with a corporation- yo.

Thank you

vodka xanax and weed
OccultHawk and I'm running ****, ok?

Well..Jesus Christ! You have all these "Pinche Payasa's" that know everything! lol..

You should hear us in person Soldier. Every state has its own individual accent. And I think after you live in 3 to 5 different states for any period of time..well..:p:

Same here really, if you go out of London and the South East (the civilized part) to the rest of the country, you`ll get to hear all types of funny accents and as for what they`re saying half the time......God only knows:)

It can be frustrating (for both parties concerned) at times especially in the Southern states being a Yankee from the North.

^That's^ vodka and drug induced language. It almost sounds like something from a sequel to Star Trek or Star Wars.

I can just picture him/her zapping someone with their "dehumanizing laser pistol" and equating them with a corporation for all of eternity! And then they reply.. "Yo"!:rolleyes:

"Then you expertly holster your laser pistol with the precision of a future (Wyatt Earp) Star Trooper".

Geesh.:confused:

Can't we just all agree "Sun Ra > Both"?

:rofl: Sounds like the type of film that could have Will Smith in!

Anyway back to the music, Captain Beefheart over Frank Zappa everytime and I find Safe as Milk, Trout Mask Replica and Lick My Decals Off, Baby better than Zappa`s best albums. I really went off Zappa several years ago and I still find a lot of his albums and their satirical content quite boring now. I still think his best work was with the Mothers of Invention and especially the Freak Out! album.

I'm cool with that.

I'm sorry.:confused:And I dont mean to be argumentative just for the sake of arguing. But you have some of the most abstract theories Ive ever heard before. If your going to post your opinion, you need to be prepared to interpret and explain your position a little better after making such bold and arrogant statements.

I would like to hear some more of your insight and opinion concerning music, which is quite entertaining to say the least.

I like to think that I am personally open minded enough to admit when I am wrong, or by seeing the legitimacy of another opinion.

Please enlighten me with your vast knowledge concerning as to a "litmus test to judge a person's understanding of music"?

I can respect anyone's personal opinion, but just being simply arrogant is a "no go" with me.

I have no beef with you personally my friend, but I am inquisitive as to your view concerning personal preference to music and different artist.:)

After all..This is Musicbanter. Not Muzicforums.

You champion Beefheart as the objectively superior musician out of the two, and yet you choose one of his weaker works as your favorite... Hilarious.

Hell......if a mod sees this post please change my vote to Beefheart as I pressed Zappa by accident!