Does smoking Marijuana make music better?

Tobylotoczko · 11-17-2011, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

I honestly don't think so. If you can't listen to something sober, maybe you don't like it. I do not smoke weed at all, and NEVER listen to real music when I drink.

The few times I do drink(maybe once every other week or so), ****ty bar music sounds fun as ****. Yet, I realize it's more me being a drunk idiot than legitimately noticing something about the music.

With that said, one could also argue, I probably listen to significantly more advanced layered difficult music than the average pothead, and feel no further need for assistance than I already have.

Okay, so you don't smoke weed. Instantly, you're opinion here is void. Also, this isn't a Weed Smoking forum, this is a music forum so you're naive to think that you listen to more complex music than anybody else in this thread.

Finally, yes. Yes, it does have an affect and you can appreciate things in a different, more perceptive manner. If you want to argue your point. Get high first so you know what you're talking about.

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra · 11-17-2011, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobylotoczko

Okay, so you don't smoke weed. Instantly, you're opinion here is void. Also, this isn't a Weed Smoking forum, this is a music forum so you're naive to think that you listen to more complex music than anybody else in this thread.

Finally, yes. Yes, it does have an affect and you can appreciate things in a different, more perceptive manner. If you want to argue your point. Get high first so you know what you're talking about.

I said 'average'. I wouldn't say this forum is for average anybody, obviously most people that are drawn here are already apt to be prone to music discussion.

My point comes from the experience of knowing people who smoke lots of pot, and people who don't, and the people who smoke pot often tend to be drawn to significantly simpler bassier music(hip-hop, doom metal, etc.). Where as, I listen to probably more layered music than they do(jazz, classical, prog).

Not to say that I'm a better listener, or that layered means more musical. Just calling BS on the concept that weed somehow makes complex music more easy to comprehend. When, in actuality, all evidence points that pot makes one crave the opposite.

As for demanding I smoke weed, I take the Frank Zappa defense. The man heavily criticized drug usage, and heavily questioned it's importance in understanding/creating music. Perhaps, I'm utilizing an element of shared knowledge as he's probably the most clear minded, and logical, thinker of any musician I've seen.

anticipation · 11-17-2011, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

Not to say that I'm a better listener, or that layered means more musical. Just calling BS on the concept that weed somehow makes complex music more easy to comprehend. When, in actuality, all evidence points that pot makes one crave the opposite.

As for demanding I smoke weed, I take the Frank Zappa defense. The man heavily criticized drug usage, and heavily questioned it's importance in understanding/creating music. Perhaps, I'm utilizing an element of shared knowledge as he's probably the most clear minded, and logical, thinker of any musician I've seen.

Really? I'd love to see that research. In fact, I'd love to see any research that says marijuana explicitly causes any sort of absolute psychological change (not physical, physiological, or symptomatic) in every single user every time they use it. You're completely out of your element here and you seem to be trying to cover up your nonsensical viewpoints by referencing the experiences of others and your own "observations", which is complete and utter bull****. Marijuana causes the most diverse and varied responses of nearly any naturally occurring substance in the world, and it has been proven countless times that no two people can experience it the same. Sure, there are lots of commonly shared feelings and effects that stem from the act of physically ingesting the substance, but the mental stimulation that cannabis provides baffles even the most well-read scholars.

Furthermore, what does logic have anything to do with making music? Music isn't a problem to be solved, and any attempt at scientific analysis of music, or the idea that you can frame music with the same methods used to come to factual evidence, is void because music predates science. Music predates all human understanding, as it is one of the most natural and uncomplicated things on Earth. Your claim that the music you prefer is more "layered/complex" only makes sense in your eyes because you force man-made constructs like meter, time, rhythm, etc. on something that can never be qualitatively measured. You actively try to dissect something that shouldn't be dissected just so you can feel superior to others.

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra · 11-17-2011, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anticipation

Really? I'd love to see that research. In fact, I'd love to see any research that says marijuana explicitly causes any sort of absolute psychological change (not physical, physiological, or symptomatic) in every single user every time they use it. You're completely out of your element here and you seem to be trying to cover up your nonsensical viewpoints by referencing the experiences of others and your own "observations", which is complete and utter bull****. Marijuana causes the most diverse and varied responses of nearly any naturally occurring substance in the world, and it has been proven countless times that no two people can experience it the same. Sure, there are lots of commonly shared feelings and effects that stem from the act of physically ingesting the substance, but the mental stimulation that cannabis provides baffles even the most well-read scholars.

Furthermore, what does logic have anything to do with making music? Music isn't a problem to be solved, and any attempt at scientific analysis of music, or the idea that you can frame music with the same methods used to come to factual evidence, is void because music predates science. Music predates all human understanding, as it is one of the most natural and uncomplicated things on Earth. Your claim that the music you prefer is more "layered/complex" only makes sense in your eyes because you force man-made constructs like meter, time, rhythm, etc. on something that can never be qualitatively measured. You actively try to dissect something that shouldn't be dissected just so you can feel superior to others.

To understand what I'm trying to say, you have to read the original page of the thread which makes the actual claims that more complex series of melodies were easier to interpret under the influence of weed. My point is the fact that if that were true, more layered music would be easier to identify.

Furthermore, the second half of your argument is ridiculous, and presumptuous. I never said my 'ability to dissect music' was better than anyones. I was combating the flagrantly ridiculous claim that pot somehow makes the ability to deconstruction more complex melodies easier as completely ridiculous.

I'll buy it makes you calmer, and may make music more enjoyable. But, consistently, the preference for more simple, bassy, repetitive music is commonly culturally associated with pot. Doom metal, etc. There are exceptions to this, there are people who utilize drugs as a performance aid. There are people who use it for inspiration, as well. I doubt, though, when the pen comes to the paper, and the concrete details of music need to be decided, that it's the best way to go.

I do not buy for one second pot increases, or enhances, any mental capability. Especially does not increase one's attention to detail. I say this from knowing a lot of heavy pot smokers who are under the delusion that they somehow have been mentally enhanced, and very clearly haven't. (NOT people on this forum. People on this forum are awesome pothead, or no.)

blastingas10 · 11-17-2011, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

To understand what I'm trying to say, you have to read the original page of the thread which makes the actual claims that more complex series of melodies were easier to interpret under the influence of weed. My point is the fact that if that were true, more layered music would be easier to identify.

Furthermore, the second half of your argument is ridiculous, and presumptuous. I never said my 'ability to dissect music' was better than anyones. I was combating the flagrantly ridiculous claim that pot somehow makes the ability to deconstruction more complex melodies easier as completely ridiculous.

I'll buy it makes you calmer, and may make music more enjoyable. But, consistently, the preference for more simple, bassy, repetitive music is commonly culturally associated with pot. Doom metal, etc. There are exceptions to this, there are people who utilize drugs as a performance aid. There are people who use it for inspiration, as well. I doubt, though, when the pen comes to the paper, and the concrete details of music need to be decided, that it's the best way to go.

I do not buy for one second pot increases, or enhances, any mental capability. Especially does not increase one's attention to detail. I say this from knowing a lot of heavy pot smokers who are under the delusion that they somehow have been mentally enhanced, and very clearly haven't. (NOT people on this forum. People on this forum are awesome pothead, or no.)

How? I don't know any potheads who like doom metal. I know from experience that Marijuana can help to understand complex music. I actually prefer to listen to more complex music like Jazz and Classical when I smoke. It takes you on a "trip". All those layers of music seem to open up more to the many layers of your mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom Limb

^This.

It's complete bullshit to say that pot makes you want to listen simple music or that it doesn't make layered complex music easier to dissect. I like to smoke up and listen to big band jazz (among other thing) which happens to be pretty fucking layered and complex at times, and from my experience, I can hear more of what's going on in the music. And, as I've already said before in this thread, it's definitely possible to do the same sober, it just comes naturally when your high.

The "Frank Zappa" defense really doesn't do you shit either cause it doesn't change the fact that you've still never smoked and you don't know what you're talking about.

I think it's because Marijuana opens your mind a little more.

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra · 11-17-2011, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastingas10

How? I don't know any potheads who like doom metal. I know from experience that Marijuana can help to understand complex music. I actually prefer to listen to more complex music like Jazz and Classical when I smoke. It takes you on a "trip". All those layers of music seem to open up more to the many layers of your mind.

I said from a cultural point of view, not a personal point of view.

Besides, I'm not saying enjoy these layers more, I'm saying distinguish these layers more. I mean, you may enjoy the whole package more, but do you really distinguish what's going on, or just utilize the experience of vastly layered music to overwhelm you further.

Quote:

I think it's because Marijuana opens your mind a little more.

Does it? Don't take this the wrong way, but I've never seen you as the most open minded guy.

blastingas10 · 11-17-2011, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

I said from a cultural point of view, not a personal point of view.

Besides, I'm not saying enjoy these layers more, I'm saying distinguish these layers more. I mean, you may enjoy the whole package more, but do you really distinguish what's going on, or just utilize the experience of vastly layered music to overwhelm you further.

Does it? Don't take this the wrong way, but I've never seen you as the most open minded guy.

Well that's fine. You don't know me. Open mindedness goes a lot further into territory other than music, and I am open minded when it comes to music. The only reason you say that is because I don't electronic music, specifically the electronic music that you have posted. You've made plenty of close minded statements. For example, when you said "everything Bob Dylan did was folk norm." No offense, but I've always seen you as pompous and arrogant, and a little hypocritical, maybe if you smoked it would open your mind to the fact that you are just another person and you're not as great as you may think you are.

Being someone that has never smoked, you still want to argue about the subject? Go ahead, try to tell people who have smoked that it doesn't open your mind. Considering the fact that you have never smoked, you probably should have never got involved in this thread.

anticipation · 11-17-2011, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

Furthermore, the second half of your argument is ridiculous, and presumptuous. I never said my 'ability to dissect music' was better than anyone’s. I was combating the flagrantly ridiculous claim that pot somehow makes the ability to deconstruction more complex melodies easier as completely ridiculous.

Nor did I. The point of my argument is the fact that you actually assign value to music. That you for some reason think that cultural stereotypes and your extremely limited and arbitrary sample sizes, i.e. "a lot of heavy pot smokers" you happen to know, have any bearing in intelligent discussion is utterly ridiculous. You've consistently stated that you don't think complex/layered/whatever elitist bull**** term you'd like to conjure up to defend itself isn't easier to comprehend when under the influence of marijuana, despite several members stating their own experience to prove the contrary. Not only do you actively deny the fact that JUST BECAUSE THE YOU AND THE PEOPLE YOU ASSOCIATE YOURSELF WITH CAN'T UTILIZE THE EFFECTS OF MARIJUANA TO BETTER YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF COMPLEX INFORMATION DOESN'T MEAN **** ALL FOR THE REST OF US, you also disrespect and denigrate the experiential diversity that these members put forth. There are those of us who realize that any drug can be a catalyst for self-improvement, give that its effects are conducive to mental clarity. Marijuana is no different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

I'll buy it makes you calmer, and may make music more enjoyable. But, consistently, the preference for more simple, bassy, repetitive music is commonly culturally associated with pot. Doom metal, etc. There are exceptions to this, there are people who utilize drugs as a performance aid. There are people who use it for inspiration, as well. I doubt, though, when the pen comes to the paper, and the concrete details of music need to be decided, that it's the best way to go.

"Culturally-associated" is a term so idiotic in definition it doesn't deserve to be in the English language. Your subjective idea of what is "culture" fails to take into account the infinitely varied responses marijuana use has on human beings. Who are you to assign anyone a dogmatic interpretation of their cognitive ability while under the influence of a substance you have no experience with? Are you really that vapid? That vain? To say that stoners are driven to simplistic music is stupid enough; to then try and defend it by saying it's proven by a cultural phenomenon when it so clearly has no correlation to marijuana's actual effects and could never be anything of the nature is incredible. This is a debate about if the effects of cannabis can enhance your ability to listen to music, not a debate about what people do when their high...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

I do not buy for one second pot increases, or enhances, any mental capability. Especially does not increase one's attention to detail. I say this from knowing a lot of heavy pot smokers who are under the delusion that they somehow have been mentally enhanced, and very clearly haven't.

This is my favorite part. You do not buy the idea that marijuana stimulates the mind and body's natural processes because you don't know anything about marijuana. Cannabis contains over 80 chemicals known as cannabinoids; these chemicals are responsible for triggering such processes as neurogenesis and immunogenesis, and possess anxiolytic, analgesic, and neuroprotectant properties that can catalyze the brain to operate at a higher function. The human body is full of endocannabinoid receptors that bind to marijuana's constituents and interact to fully realize the body's hormonal and structural maintenance functions. Cannabinoids are essential to neuromodulator release, motor learning, synaptic plasticity, and the development of appetite in newborn children. Mother's breastmilk contains much of the same cannabinoids as our favorite strains of pot, and is responsible for the growth and proper functioning of an infant's brain. Still don't think marijuana has the ability to bring about mental clarity?

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra · 11-17-2011, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anticipation

This is my favorite part. You do not buy the idea that marijuana stimulates the mind and body's natural processes because you don't know anything about marijuana. Cannabis contains over 80 chemicals known as cannabinoids; these chemicals are responsible for triggering such processes as neurogenesis and immunogenesis, and possess anxiolytic, analgesic, and neuroprotectant properties that can catalyze the brain to operate at a higher function. The human body is full of endocannabinoid receptors that bind to marijuana's constituents and interact to fully realize the body's hormonal and structural maintenance functions. Cannabinoids are essential to neuromodulator release, motor learning, synaptic plasticity, and the development of appetite in newborn children. Mother's breastmilk contains much of the same cannabinoids as our favorite strains of pot, and is responsible for the growth and proper functioning of an infant's brain. Still don't think marijuana has the ability to bring about mental clarity?

Sounds like a copy and pasted argument from a study which exists simply to already support your opinion. I can either take this as an example or walk down the street and see a sign that says "Marihuana is Medicine"(which I have), and be skeptical.

For me, I think there's a huge cloud of propaganda going into the issue of legalizing of pot, and it reeks of bull****. I'm just a natural skeptic, and chose to judge more on the actions, speech patterns, and behaviors of people around me when they're smoking weed than propaganda put under the lens of psuedoscience.

I mean, I bet you from a Christian scientist I can find evidence Jesus Christ fed the velociraptors fish, and bread. Yet, I take it with a grain of salt.

If you enjoy pot, good. It's not going to make me ignore the fact that I've personally seen wonderful people turned into blathering idiots by the drug.

Now, don't get me wrong, I've met some cool potheads. but, they're like drunks. Sometimes they're calm when they're high, sometimes complete overbearing snide pricks.

blastingas10 · 11-17-2011, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

Sounds like a copy and pasted argument from a study which exists simply to already support your opinion. I can either take this as an example or walk down the street and see a sign that says "Marihuana is Medicine"(which I have), and be skeptical.

For me, I think there's a huge cloud of propaganda going into the issue of legalizing of pot, and it reeks of bull****. I'm just a natural skeptic, and chose to judge more on the actions, speech patterns, and behaviors of people around me when they're smoking weed than propaganda put under the lens of psuedoscience.

I mean, I bet you from a Christian scientist I can find evidence Jesus Christ fed the velociraptors fish, and bread. Yet, I take it with a grain of salt.

If you enjoy pot, good. It's not going to make me ignore the fact that I've personally seen wonderful people turned into blathering idiots by the drug.

Now, don't get me wrong, I've met some cool potheads. but, they're like drunks. Sometimes they're calm when they're high, sometimes complete overbearing snide pricks.

What you've seen really doesn't mean anything. You think there are no medical benefits of Marijuana? Get real. You're so egotistical that you allow your beliefs to blind you from the truth. I guess you're one of those ignorant minds who think it's okay to drink your drug, but god forbid that anyone smokes weed or it will turn them into a "blathering idiot".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrd00d

Don't get so worked up Anticipation, Skali. I see both sides of this argument and they both have merit. Take a step back and relax. I'm a pothead, and while I enjoy music more while stoned and/or drunk and/or on hallucinogens, I can't say it helps me to decipher layers in songs. Learning an instrument and many years of music listening have done that. I feel bad for Skali though, y'all. He's not coming across as an ass or an elitist in my opinion but there's a dogpile going on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

Sounds like a copy and pasted argument from a study which exists simply to already support your opinion. I can either take this as an example or walk down the street and see a sign that says "Marihuana is Medicine"(which I have), and be skeptical.

For me, I think there's a huge cloud of propaganda going into the issue of legalizing of pot, and it reeks of bull****. I'm just a natural skeptic, and chose to judge more on the actions, speech patterns, and behaviors of people around me when they're smoking weed than propaganda put under the lens of psuedoscience.

I mean, I bet you from a Christian scientist I can find evidence Jesus Christ fed the velociraptors fish, and bread. Yet, I take it with a grain of salt.

If you enjoy pot, good. It's not going to make me ignore the fact that I've personally seen wonderful people turned into blathering idiots by the drug.

Now, don't get me wrong, I've met some cool potheads. but, they're like drunks. Sometimes they're calm when they're high, sometimes complete overbearing snide pricks.

This is a very asinine statement.