Surely output isn't measured in who the intended audience is?

And no, why do people keep calling you a troll? You're like, the oldest member here?

People assume she (I am assuming gender) is a troll because she says things like that. Katy Perry's output is better because she doesn't pander to homosexuals. The same woman who created the masterpieces that are "I Kissed a Girl" and "Ur So Gay" isn't pandering, unlike Lady Gaga who... apparently does?

Well first of all yes, I am a female.

Secondly, if you want to have this conversation, start a thread.

I don't really.

Why not?

about Gaga, i just rewatched the "Edge of Glory" music video

she's looking and sounding more and more "ho hum" these days

madonna is pretty lame, i mean shes a pop star and nothing ore...oh and also a crappy actress when people do allow her in movies, anyone who takes criticism of her too seriously - clearly cant see a perspective of her outside that lame ass fanbase.

Wow. Is it even possible to start a more biased thread? How is there even any room for discussion? What are you looking for besides having your opinion celebrated by posting this?

First off, how are you able to ascertain with certainty that she is in fact overrated?

How is it that she's undeserving of the commercial success of her product? She was FAR more involved with her music career and its success than most average CEOs are within their corporations. Why shouldn't she get as big of a cut of the profits as she can?


*adjusts pretentious old man hipster hat*

... are you even old enough to remember what the average female pop star was 'expected' to be before Madonna started her career?

TheBig3 nails it, you want to hate her for being incredibly arrogant and superficial (the fake accent same as Gwyneth Paltrow) DO IT UP. You want to despise her for making volunteers at a film festival face the wall while she walked down a hallway. VALID REASON. And while her skin looks to have the texture of freezer burnt bacon I seem to remember her being kind of hot back in the late 80s.

But to hate on her because she spearheaded and capitalized upon a drastic change to pop music that doesn't suit your tastes and sensibilities? boo hoo :(

wait...

WAT!?!?!

Lady Gaga would have exactly 0 of her career if it weren't for Madonna. Child 'prodigy' / Tori Amos clone or not (you remember Fiona Apple?). The only reason there were doors open wide enough for her to get the footing to start the career she has now are directly 100% related to Madonna.

----

As for the final question as to why do her fans obsess themselves with Madonna so much. You do realize the very same question could just as easily be applied to The Beatles right?

I said a a few weeks ago or whenever this thread started that I don't mind Madonna's output and enjoy quite a bit of her catalog. I'm not a super-fan or anything, but if Michael Jackson is the King of pop, I would certainly call her the Queen.

Anyway, my perception of all this negativity toward Madonna is a form of obsession, and it is no different from her fans that obsess over her in a positive way. Either way, both the anti-Madonna team, and the pro-Madonna team are both exerting energy to express feelings about Madonna, so to me both teams are obsessing over her.

He isn't. :D But all this King, Queen stuff I think is meaningless hype anyway which I suspect some (I'm not saying you) take too seriously.

I remember you once suggesting that Paul McCartney should be the king of pop starrynight.

Whats the difference?

Read the thread and then you will see that the main purpose was to question this whole Michael Jackson as King of Pop in that others could equally be said to be that anyway (including McCartney). It was comparing McCartney to Michael Jackson and making fun of the King of Pop marketing gimmick his record company used.

Well I could quote myself from that thread, but it would be wasting my time really.

Well I'm ready for a verbal confrontation!

Come on Starrynight, its been awhile since we've last had a good "knock down and drag out" debate.

Lets Dance.

Hands up, who rates Madonna?

Nobody... Oh.

:wave:

Why are you pulling these random statistics out of thin air? How is that going to justify your point when you just made them up?

Yes she is a pop diva. No she is not a top concert pianist. Think that was pretty clear. I highly doubt everyone plays the piano to the same level.

I love Madonna, idegaf

Because when she makes those little poses you just wanna bang the crap out of her

Agree completely... I think Michael Jackson really only had two significant albums (Thriller and Bad), so I would hardly call him the King of Pop.

Yea, my comment on the queen and king of pop was completely tongue and cheek.

That's one of my two favorites of hers. The other is "Oh Father."

I like many of her other ballads (which she basically stopped making or at least releasing by 2000). I like some of her 80's dance songs, too, including "Into the Groove" and "Where's the Party." More recently, "Deeper and Deeper." That's as someone who generally dislikes dance songs. Also, I think "Beautiful Stranger" is the one of best upbeat pop songs of the last 20 years. In my opinion, Madonna's post-1990 output isn't impressive, but still most of the singles have been decent.

That being said, I think Madonna is an awful person and sort of back-hand compliment her for improving her singing midway through her career.

Short answer: no, I don't think Madonna is overrated.

I really like the verse of Into The Groove, but the chorus seems to lack some of the character there is in songs like Material Girl and Like A Virgin from around the same time. And the middle section sounds a bit plodding maybe.

Dig it.

she started to disintegrate around Papa Don't Preach, methinks

got into her again after the Frozen and Ray of Light singles, but she fell off my radar again after that

Madonna is someone who is talented but her music is below par but she knows how to be a goodass sex pot. I mean she was the pioneer of obscene music we see more today. She unlike Michael Jackson, wanted music for people who were big perverts. Homosexuals were really her fan base. Madonna did make some good songs but most songs are the perverted ones. Wonder why she is considered a sex pot. Now her daughter Lady Gaga has power and is more annoying than Madonna. I would rather be with Madonna than Lady Gaga.

^^prude!

This is a serious of odd comments...

"I mean she was the pioneer of obscene music we see more today."
Madonna was certainty not the pioneer of obscene music, and most of her music is not obscene at all

She unlike Michael Jackson, wanted music for people who were big perverts. Homosexuals were really her fan base.
What facts are you basing this on? I think it is absurd to claim that Madonna targeted perverts and homosexuals. Some homosexuals might be Madonna fans, but "perverts" has severe negative connotations, and I'm not sure what you mean by that.

I would rather be with Madonna than Lady Gaga
Can't tell if your whole post is tongue in cheek or serious

Madonna did popularize the oversexed music video trend, which I think has been bad for future artists (image instead of substance). And I'm personally too turned off by her personality to have ever much enjoyed her looks.

Why is Lady Gaga brought up every time Madonna is? Get over it people, yes Gaga borrows from her, it doesn't need to be said 100 times I'm pretty sure unless someone has been living under a rock they will see the comparison.

Totally agreed.
Madonna became successful because she's an excellent singer. If I recall, way back in the early 1980s, her promoters kept her physical image private because the industry presumed her to be a black soul singer, more like a new Motown thing than a contemporary '80s Billboard Top-40 thing. It was only later that her physicality was exploited. She was first noticed and propelled into stardom because of her singing.

I haven't paid attention to her music for the last couple decades but she was certainly the real deal when she started out: a young, hyper-ambitious Italian American with a better singing voice than almost everybody. So, boobs and Gaga comparisons aside, she rates fine in my book and I still love her old stuff because she was pretty much the best at what she did.

edit: When Madonna's lost I'll be her guide. She just turns around and I'm by her side :love:

So then why did no one in Gaga's camp pick up on the fact that she pretty much directly lifted the melody to 'Express Yourself' for 'Born This Way'? Her reactions to being questioned about it by the press lead me to wonder...

Madonna was somewhat overrated but some of her songs are tight with me. I can listen to Madonna from time to time when I feel to do so. Madonna is someone who is a incredibly great dancer. She's got the skills. Madonna can still dance even at 53 years old. I think her new album will be the bang.

It's like watching your mum grind, but more physically repulsing.

I find part of that first paragraph very hard to believe. Madonna has never never been known for having a good singing voice. For the first half of her career, it was thin and underwhelming.

As far as I know, Madonna is extremely ambitious and worked very hard to become famous - and still does.

The 80s was full of artists doing more or less what Madonna did, people like Kim Wilde, Nena, Samantha Fox, Sandra, Sabrina etc. Although I'm not a fan of that kind of music, I reckon Madonna was by far the best of the bunch. Her songs were good and she wasn't a one-hit wonder either. There was more where that came from.

Since then she's managed to renew herself, for example on songs like Frozen or Hung Up. I don't think she's that overrated and figure she's a better candidate for the title Queen of Pop than any other I can think of.

I thought that Madonna had a decent voice. The slack early in her career was due to not yet finding her sound and style (if I am correct)? Having good dance choreography +1.

She is a genius dancer. She is someone who knows how to show your dancing skills well. Good luck with Madonna.

Kim Wilde is a bit underrated. Obviously without the American hype Madonna got.

Madonna is the more successful pop person indeed. Samatha Fox and Kim Wilde are basic one hit wonders. Madonna did make some quite controversial songs such as Justify the Love. I heard that video was banned on MTV. It is fascinating to hear.