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Old 01-09-2012, 10:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Genesis and American Psycho

I'm sure this has been referenced here before, but I couldn't find it.

One of my favorite films (severely misunderstood, by the way), and I love Bateman's disquisition on Genesis. Certainly the opposite of my thoughts on Genesis, but it makes sense for Bateman's character...

Patrick Bateman:
“Do you like Phil Collins? I’ve been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn’t understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where, uh, Phil Collins’ presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group’s undisputed masterpiece. It’s an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums. Christy, take off your robe. Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument. Sabrina, remove your dress. In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, the sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism. Sabrina, why don’t you, uh, dance a little. Take the lyrics to Land of Confusion. In this song, Phil Collins addresses the problems of abusive political authority. In Too Deep is the most moving pop song of the 1980s, about monogamy and commitment. The song is extremely uplifting. Their lyrics are as positive and affirmative as, uh, anything I’ve heard in rock… Phil Collins’ solo career seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially songs like In the Air Tonight and, uh, Against All Odds… But I also think Phil Collins works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist, and I stress the word artist. This is Sussudio, a great, great song, a personal favorite.”

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Old 01-10-2012, 05:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Yeah the description is very well done. I love the book but didn't enjoy the film quite as much.

Does the Phil Collins/Genesis description appear in the film identical to the book or has it been shortened or changed?
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Been a while since I read the book and saw the movie, but I'm pretty sure the movie truncated the story.

The book was pretty cool because it was one in a series of 80's manifestos; the movie pretty much limited these monologues to the Genesis discussion.

Most comical to me was, in the book, the rant about the self-titled Genesis album being confused as the first album. I remember a number of people back in the 80's making this mistake, thinking "That's All" was a great tune "from that new band."
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Yeah the description is very well done. I love the book but didn't enjoy the film quite as much.

Does the Phil Collins/Genesis description appear in the film identical to the book or has it been shortened or changed?
I would have to go back to check out the book version of the quote to see if it matches.

I like several of Brett Easton Ellis' books, but I actually like the "American Psycho" film better than the book. It is misunderstood by many people (as is the book), but the movie is often considered a slasher/ masochistic film by many people, when in actuality-- it is a black comedy (and only has about 3 killing scenes), and the screenplay and direction was done by a female (Mary Harron). At its root, the film is about how shallow the wall street male bankers were in the 80's, and it is making fun of them, not highlighting them. That's why the Genesis quote is so perfect-- the character identifies with Genesis' more shallow/ pop music more than their earlier more serious music.
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Old 01-10-2012, 11:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
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That's why the Genesis quote is so perfect-- the character identifies with Genesis' more shallow/ pop music more than their earlier more serious music.
I don't think the guy has firm grasp on reality let alone music - I think it spoofs the opinions of Genesis fans rather than an insightful critique on Genesis that is to be taken seriously. There something eerie about it, the guy gives a emotionally detached monotonous speech about something he is suppose to be passionate about while playing a "romantic" song. He sounds very professional about inane stuff, I think the scene is set up to provide irony.

It reminds me of American Psycho (II) where the guy had this strange obsession with Huey Lewis and the News. I've seen APII with my cousin, because he's into to those slasher movies, (I don't care for them) and I came away just hating Huey Lewis from that one scene, I still have to look over my should when I hear a song by Huey Lewis and the News.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:51 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I would have to go back to check out the book version of the quote to see if it matches.

I like several of Brett Easton Ellis' books, but I actually like the "American Psycho" film better than the book. It is misunderstood by many people (as is the book), but the movie is often considered a slasher/ masochistic film by many people, when in actuality-- it is a black comedy (and only has about 3 killing scenes), and the screenplay and direction was done by a female (Mary Harron). At its root, the film is about how shallow the wall street male bankers were in the 80's, and it is making fun of them, not highlighting them. That's why the Genesis quote is so perfect-- the character identifies with Genesis' more shallow/ pop music more than their earlier more serious music.
The sex of the director doesn't matter at all and I think you underestimate the fans of the book and the film (let alone the author).
The character doesn't identify with Genesis at all, similarly to how he can't relate to people. Perhaps he has a visceral enjoyment of Genesis' music but he's an intelligent sociopath who only pretends to understand human empathy so his Genesis quote is simply a recitation of what he thinks his audience wants to hear from a Genesis fan.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:07 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I don't think the guy has firm grasp on reality let alone music - I think it spoofs the opinions of Genesis fans rather than an insightful critique on Genesis that is to be taken seriously. There something eerie about it, the guy gives a emotionally detached monotonous speech about something he is suppose to be passionate about while playing a "romantic" song. He sounds very professional about inane stuff, I think the scene is set up to provide irony.

It reminds me of American Psycho (II) where the guy had this strange obsession with Huey Lewis and the News. I've seen APII with my cousin, because he's into to those slasher movies, (I don't care for them) and I came away just hating Huey Lewis from that one scene, I still have to look over my should when I hear a song by Huey Lewis and the News.
You are correct, the scene is set up to provide irony-- or more accurately-- satire, and it is not to be an accurate analysis of the band, but rather of the Patrick Bateman character. The quote about Genesis has nothing to do with spoofing Genesis fans. In fact, the original author (Brett Easton Ellis) must of had imitate knowledge of Gabriel era Genesis to be able to include that section. The Genesis quote is used because it fits the Patrick Bateman character perfectly. He likes 80's genesis and doesn't understand 70's Genesis because he is a shallow character, so he associates more with the more shallow version of Genesis from the 80's, which he even admits... "I’ve been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn’t understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual"

American Psycho II has nothing to do with the book or the original; it was not even in the theaters. The Huey Lewis quote, as well as a similar Whitney Houston quote, along with the Genesis quote are all in the original.

All Patrick Bateman (the protagonist) is concerned with is how things seem on the surface... clothes, restaurants, music, and so on. Here's a great clip of interviews from the actors. Mary Harron, the director, does the best job of explaining the movie. Although there is a back plot of Bateman as serial killer, it is certainly not a slasher film, which is why the film is so misunderstood.

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Old 01-13-2012, 07:30 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Well for me, I am a fan of Phil Collins. He is a man who has always been able to sing from the 1970s to now. It is quite a long time. Phil is someone who I always considered to be a legendary man. I apperciate Phil Collins. I only wish him more and more years of music to come.
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Old 01-13-2012, 08:16 AM   #9 (permalink)
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You are correct, the scene is set up to provide irony-- or more accurately-- satire, and it is not to be an accurate analysis of the band, but rather of the Patrick Bateman character. The quote about Genesis has nothing to do with spoofing Genesis fans. In fact, the original author (Brett Easton Ellis) must of had imitate knowledge of Gabriel era Genesis to be able to include that section. The Genesis quote is used because it fits the Patrick Bateman character perfectly. He likes 80's genesis and doesn't understand 70's Genesis because he is a shallow character, so he associates more with the more shallow version of Genesis from the 80's, which he even admits... "I’ve been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn’t understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual"

American Psycho II has nothing to do with the book or the original; it was not even in the theaters. The Huey Lewis quote, as well as a similar Whitney Houston quote, along with the Genesis quote are all in the original.

All Patrick Bateman (the protagonist) is concerned with is how things seem on the surface... clothes, restaurants, music, and so on. Here's a great clip of interviews from the actors. Mary Harron, the director, does the best job of explaining the movie. Although there is a back plot of Bateman as serial killer, it is certainly not a slasher film, which is why the film is so misunderstood.

Like has already been said, most people here don't watch American Psycho and just think slasher film. I really don't think it's as complex and ambiguous as you make it out to be. Hell most of Bateman's monologues/speeches are pretty direct and to the point, such as the opening monologue when he describes himself as "simply not there".

Engine was correct. As Bateman states at some point, "Because I want to fit in!"

Don't think it gets much clearer then that.

Last edited by midnight rain; 01-13-2012 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Like has already been said, most people here don't watch American Psycho and just think slasher film. I really don't think it's as complex and ambiguous as you make it out to be. Hell most of Bateman's monologues/speeches are pretty direct and to the point, such as the opening monologue when he describes himself as "simply not there".

Engine was correct. As Bateman states at some point, "Because I want to fit in!"

Don't think it gets much clearer then that.
Agreed, I think the plot is blatantly obvious, and I never said that it was complex and ambiguous, just that it is often misunderstood by many people; however, I agree that most people here get the plot because most people here are above average intelligence

But, I do think that many other people dislike the film because they assume it is just a slasher film that negatively portrays women. The whole reason Mary Harron (a female) took on the film as director and screenwriter was because she wanted to better show the dark comedy/ satire side of the book and point out that the story is actually making fun of the men and not the women. She goes into this in detail on the extras section of the DVD.

To Franco Pepe Kalle, I like Collins era Genesis as well (I like Gabriel era better), but I like most of Genesis' 80's output as well, but it is more shallow than the 70's output... but sometimes shallow is good in my book.
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