Bob Dylan versus Leonard Cohen

TheBig3 · 06-25-2012, 09:08 AM

It seems like a pretty straightforward question gentleman. If you can't answer it, that isn't my problem. Selecting Cohen in the first place smells to me of contrarianism. Not being able to tell me the difference between two men who's deadpan droll alone would solve insomnia overnight (pun intended) make its smell all the more like look-at-me-ism.

There. Maybe that will inspire you enough to make an actual point.

**Janszoon** · 06-25-2012, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engine

Oh! How brain-dead of me. Sorry.
I'm actually pretty disappointed in myself right now because I think the Shatner thing should be very easy for me to rip to shreds. But I'm very sleep deprived, deranged, and generally malfunctioning right now so I've got nothing.

Well, I think what Big3 is trying to say is that if you take away Leonard Cohen's lyrics, his music is nothing special. There's two problems with this viewpoint. The first is that, while certainly hit-or-miss, Leonard Cohen has actually put out a lot music that would be great even without his amazing lyrics, "Avalanche" for example. The second issue is the bigger one: what sense does it make do talk about Leonard Cohen's music without talking about the thing that is the focal point of the music? It would be like talking about Neil Peart without talking about his drumming or Les Claypool without his bass playing.

TheBig3 · 06-25-2012, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Well, I think what Big3 is trying to say is that if you take away Leonard Cohen's lyrics, his music is nothing special. There's two problems with this viewpoint. The first is that, while certainly hit-or-miss, Leonard Cohen has actually put out a lot music that would be great even without his amazing lyrics, "Avalanche" for example. The second issue is the bigger one: what sense does it make do talk about Leonard Cohen's music without talking about the thing that is the focal point of the music? It would be like talking about Neil Peart without talking about his drumming or Les Claypool without his bass playing.

Maybe. I haven't heard Avalanche. And one of Cohen's larger problems is that what I've heard from him vacillates between synthed out automation like "First we take Manhattan" which I like, and what I guess we'd call "jazz" like "blue raincoat" (whatever the actual title is) which I couldn't stand.

Its not fair to blame him for the time he was in - I get that - but if you're comparing him to Dylan, I don't see where Cohen gets a leg up. Are you suggesting Dylan's lyrics are terrible?

Is he not more diverse musically than Cohen? Has he produced less work? Is his cannon smaller? Dylan has contributed, in every way, more to music than Cohen has. And I don't hate Cohen, but this isn't even a match-up.

**Janszoon** · 06-25-2012, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

Maybe. I haven't heard Avalanche. And one of Cohen's larger problems is that what I've heard from him vacillates between synthed out automation like "First we take Manhattan" which I like, and what I guess we'd call "jazz" like "blue raincoat" (whatever the actual title is) which I couldn't stand.

Jazz seems like a weird way to describe "Famous Blue Raincoat". I'd call it a folk song.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

Its not fair to blame him for the time he was in - I get that - but if you're comparing him to Dylan, I don't see where Cohen gets a leg up. Are you suggesting Dylan's lyrics are terrible?

Terrible? No. But I think Cohen's are far better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

Is he not more diverse musically than Cohen?

No idea. Dylan has never struck as super-diverse, but what would it matter either way?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

Has he produced less work?

What relevance does that have? Is Kenny Rogers better than both of them because he's put out the most albums?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

Is his cannon smaller?

We're comparing penis size now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

Dylan has contributed, in every way, more to music than Cohen has. And I don't hate Cohen, but this isn't even a match-up.

I don't know who has contributed more, but I do know who I like more: Cohen. For me there's no contest.

TheBig3 · 06-25-2012, 09:29 AM

Right. So he's only lightyears ahead in your opinion. Is that what you're saying?

**Janszoon** · 06-25-2012, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

Right. So he's only lightyears ahead in your opinion. Is that what you're saying?

Sure. We're all expressing opinions here. Are you suggesting that your position is somehow a fact rather than an opinion?

Howard the Duck · 06-25-2012, 09:42 AM

i don't like the stuff Cohen did after the 80s

that synthy stuff

i'd think Dylan had a more consistent career, except for a few duds in the 80s

of course Dylan can't write as well as Cohen (lyrically)

TheBig3 · 06-25-2012, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Sure. We're all expressing opinions here. Are you suggesting that your position is somehow a fact rather than an opinion?

You know that I am.

But seriously, if we're not trying to argue empirically then lets just talk about our feelings and hug afterwards.

A hug, Janszoon, not a tickle fight...a hug.

**Janszoon** · 06-25-2012, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

You know that I am.

But seriously, if we're not trying to argue empirically then lets just talk about our feelings and hug afterwards.

A hug, Janszoon, not a tickle fight...a hug.

Hugs later, I'm at work. I'm just curious to know how one can answer the question "which do you prefer" empirically.

TheBig3 · 06-25-2012, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Hugs later, I'm at work. I'm just curious to know how one can answer the question "which do you prefer" empirically.

You can't, but someone needs to shepard this fat and lazy sheep out of the wolf den. The thread won't sell itself on the OP alone.

We're shepards, Zoon, and I suggest you get your sheepdog.

06-25-2012, 09:08 AM	#11 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,172	It seems like a pretty straightforward question gentleman. If you can't answer it, that isn't my problem. Selecting Cohen in the first place smells to me of contrarianism. Not being able to tell me the difference between two men who's deadpan droll alone would solve insomnia overnight (pun intended) make its smell all the more like look-at-me-ism. There. Maybe that will inspire you enough to make an actual point. __________________ I've moved to a new address

06-25-2012, 09:29 AM	#15 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,172	Right. So he's only lightyears ahead in your opinion. Is that what you're saying? __________________ I've moved to a new address