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Old 12-17-2012, 07:29 PM   #171 (permalink)
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I said months ago that that's not my definition of "banter." If the regular members' standard idea of "fun" here isn't fun to others, then this is what we get, few dedicated new members. Some of the others probably think the atmosphere is deliberately hostile, and a few of the most visible usernames fuel that perception. No one is going to quickly, magically change a "close-minded" new member's opinion via criticism. Nobody here can change the facts that some other forums are nasty and that many music fans have thin skins. If nobody here wants to behave differently, then nothing is likely to change. Except me - the atmosphere is eroding my interest in starting new threads.
Maybe if you want change you should lead by example instead of sitting around complaining? Just a thought. I mean, for all your concern about how newbies are treated, I have to say I can't recall ever observing you doing anything to welcome any.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:13 PM   #172 (permalink)
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Maybe if you want change you should lead by example instead of sitting around complaining? Just a thought. I mean, for all your concern about how newbies are treated, I have to say I can't recall ever observing you doing anything to welcome any.
True. But I've only had one known instance of arguing with a new member. I'll check out the new members section, to see if there's anyone I might like.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:20 PM   #173 (permalink)
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True. But I've only had one known instance of arguing with a new member. I'll check out the new members section, to see if there's anyone I might like.
Maybe you could adopt some noobs and show them the ways of the force? Like what is the art of true banter.
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Actually, I like you a lot, Nea. That's why I treat you like ****. It's the MB way.

"it counts in our hearts" - ?ºº?
“I have nothing to offer anybody, except my own confusion.” ? Jack Kerouac.
“If one listens to the wrong kind of music, he will become the wrong kind of person.” – Aristotle.
"If you tried to give Rock and Roll another name, you might call it 'Chuck Berry'." - John Lennon
"I look for ambiguity when I'm writing because life is ambiguous." — Keith Richards ? ???? ? ? ?????
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:54 PM   #174 (permalink)
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no not really, my point is that most ppl think Jimmy hendrix is a big deal but i don't..

So while they see him as an innovator i don't

im obligated to give Jimmy his props of course i do recognise his mark in music history but my true point, what is innovation if you don't recognise it as so?

I find more innovation in other artist than in Jimmy hendrix yet those artist will be never recognised as great Jimmy but they are the ones who influenced my music taste.
And to me.. They ARE Innovators and have pushed music to evolve and if @PC Doesn't see it that way, it doesn't make him right

@Pursuingchange

Do not mess with the formula, cause it works!
Heh heh. ^ That was a funny video of a song that shows how "innovative" pop music is, given that so many songs use the same 4 chords over and over.

I agree with you that innovation is subjective. Your post points out that people don't necessarily like the sound of "innovative" music. Innovation will not guarantee popularity with everyone. For example, I had vaguely known of Jimmy Hendrix years ago, but I never particularly liked his songs that I happened to hear, so whether he was innovative or not was lost on me.

However, when I heard the following song, thanks to MusicBanter's introducing me to Dubstep, I remember being excited because this style of crunchy music definitely sounded "innovative" and new to me, and I liked it:

Eskamon - "Fine Objects"
@ Pursuingchange: would you consider this music to be innovative?


Eskamon - Fine Objects - YouTube

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If something is truly ground breaking, you shouldn't have to go looking for it to no avail. It would more than likely be well-known.

It was easy to innovate in the earlier days because there was still tons of undiscovered styles and sounds. But I kind of feel like we've discovered it all. How else can you explain how stagnant popular music has become? If there were any more groundbreaking new sounds or styles to be unveiled, you know the large corporations would be force-feeding it to everyone. [...] I think people are getting tired of the whole 'rock band' concept with guitars as the main sound. It's been done for half a century now. The entire scope of what a band is and how the music is made and approached will have to completely change for there to be any true originality and renewment to progressing creatively and musically (like it did when rock and roll was being created). The people who stick to using guitars and other old instruments will never be innovative. I think it really is that simple.

However, contrary to popular belief, I AM interested in your opinions.
I do agree with you that it probably was easier to be innovative in the distant past because there were still many undiscovered avenues. This is true in science, too, and not just in music. Finding an open niche for exploration to make great discoveries or innovative ideas is increasingly difficult when so many niches have already been filled so full.

I know you've been asked before in the thread, but what is the reason you feel truly innovative, groundbreaking music is likely to be well-known so that you don't have to look for it?

I think there are quite a few music innovations that have not become extremely popular (such as the theremin instrument) because not many people have heard them (little promotion), or people didn't like the innovations, or perhaps the innovations are still so new that they haven't had a chance to propagate through music (but may become well-recognized years from now).

An example of a non-popular innovation I can think of is the vocal growl or death growl. Since its origin in the '70s or '80s (or maybe earlier), I don't think songs with death growls were played much on the radio, because I'd never heard a death growl in a song until 3 years ago. Some people absolutely hate growled vocals, yet the first thing I thought when I heard them was, "Wow! This is new to me!" and I was intrigued. Still, most popular music songs use boring, non-innovative clean vocals and rarely involve death growling...although I think it would be great fun to hear Taylor Swift do one!
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:05 PM   #175 (permalink)
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I guess it was just easier in part because the instrument(s) were so new that all their capabilities hadn't been discovered yet. At this point I don't care much anymore. When I finally realized that fresh ideas and room for innovation had basically dried out in music, I realized that it wasn't just with music, it was with everything else in the world too. Nothing's new anymore. At least nothing new that is captivating or worth-while to me. When I look around, I see a dull world that keeps getting duller. I can't imagine what it's going to be like when I'm 40 or 50 years old. I'm only 21 right now and I'm already burnt out on life. There's just nothing new it seems. Idk. Maybe I'm wrong. All I know is that I'm just bored and ready for there to be some kind of big motivation for me to love music and living again. I'm just not into today's styles much. I think they are really watered-down and I can't get to know the musicians anymore because most of them seem to lack true character and soul. I hope the world DOES end next week lol.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:12 PM   #176 (permalink)
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VEGANGELICA,

I know you directed the question to someone else, I hope you don't mind...

It might sound new, the way it is done is relatively new, but it goes back to experimental music from the 60's. (maybe early, but I'm not sure) That peice is somewhere between a sound collage and Glitch (plus a crossfade of hip hop and Electronic j/k) but instead of tone bender manipulating a electronic device as in Glitch, it is a bunch of sample on a computer. And when you think about it, having samples spliced together goes back to the 60's with sound collage, but now it's done with soft ware, not with tape. An example of a sound collage would be Number Nine by The Beatles. (I'm not saying that The Beatles invented Glitch-Hop but I'm sure someone is going to think that.) John must of known of some example of sound collages and wanted to do his own experimental peice on the White album.

The "music" itself might be new or relatively new. But the ideas are old, you'll find a lot of sampling in hip hop, what evolved are the tools and sounds. Some of those sounds relatively new, like the synth bass sample from dub step, or maybe it's a synth bass sample from form Dave Smith synth or something e.g. an anaolgue bass-synth.
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Originally Posted by Zhanteimi View Post
Actually, I like you a lot, Nea. That's why I treat you like ****. It's the MB way.

"it counts in our hearts" - ?ºº?
“I have nothing to offer anybody, except my own confusion.” ? Jack Kerouac.
“If one listens to the wrong kind of music, he will become the wrong kind of person.” – Aristotle.
"If you tried to give Rock and Roll another name, you might call it 'Chuck Berry'." - John Lennon
"I look for ambiguity when I'm writing because life is ambiguous." — Keith Richards ? ???? ? ? ?????
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:58 PM   #177 (permalink)
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I guess it was just easier in part because the instrument(s) were so new that all their capabilities hadn't been discovered yet. At this point I don't care much anymore. When I finally realized that fresh ideas and room for innovation had basically dried out in music, I realized that it wasn't just with music, it was with everything else in the world too. Nothing's new anymore. At least nothing new that is captivating or worth-while to me. When I look around, I see a dull world that keeps getting duller. I can't imagine what it's going to be like when I'm 40 or 50 years old. I'm only 21 right now and I'm already burnt out on life. There's just nothing new it seems. Idk. Maybe I'm wrong. All I know is that I'm just bored and ready for there to be some kind of big motivation for me to love music and living again. I'm just not into today's styles much. I think they are really watered-down and I can't get to know the musicians anymore because most of them seem to lack true character and soul. I hope the world DOES end next week lol.

I'm not familiar with the community here, I'm new too, but maybe getting some good musical suggestions from some of the members around here might help with your current musical pessimism
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:01 AM   #178 (permalink)
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True. But I've only had one known instance of arguing with a new member. I'll check out the new members section, to see if there's anyone I might like.
Why would it matter if you like them? I thought your whole point was that even the most hostile of newbies should be treated with kid gloves.
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i'm not gonna spend my life on music banter trying to convince people the earth is flat.
A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man

Time & Place

25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die


last.fm
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:03 AM   #179 (permalink)
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No. Legitimately hostile new members (aka trolls) should be ejected, and only moderators have anything close to any obligation to greet new members. My point is don't be needlessly hostile to new people.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:01 AM   #180 (permalink)
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No. Legitimately hostile new members (aka trolls) should be ejected, and only moderators have anything close to any obligation to greet new members. My point is don't be needlessly hostile to new people.
I agree. In fact, I guess I'm less strict than you here, because I think before we simply "eject" a hostile new member they should be told that they're doing something wrong and given the opportunity to change their behavior.

On a side note, I think your comment about greeting new members is pretty far off the mark. Why should only mods have an obligation to greet new members? If you care about the community here, you should take the time to make sure new members feel welcome.
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Originally Posted by P A N View Post
i'm not gonna spend my life on music banter trying to convince people the earth is flat.
A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man

Time & Place

25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die


last.fm
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