The separation between the artist and his music.

edwardc77 · 04-12-2013, 11:20 AM

Here’s my question for you guys…suppose that you really like an artist, you like his songs, you bought all his albums, and you listen to his music every day and so on….
Then you discover that this person who you admire so much has extreme views regarding race or politics (he's a racist) or that he will be convicted for a serious crime like rape or murder.
What would you do?
Would you keep on enjoying his music even if you knew that he is “bad person", thus separating his music from his behavior.
But wouldn’t this be like accepting a double standard?
Do artists deserve a special treatment?
Here's an example: If found out that my neighbor was a child molester, I would completely despise him, but since Michael Jackson is so talented I will still listen and enjoy his music regardless of his conduct....Would that be ok to do?

djchameleon · 04-12-2013, 11:26 AM

Bad example, what if Michael Jackson WAS your neighbor would you be okay with that?

There are so many double standards and hypocrites in life that I don't think you should stress over liking a person's music but hating them as a person and their lifestyle choices.

They get their job done and that's entertaining you so go ahead and appreciate it but you don't have to care about how they spend their everyday life.

edwardc77 · 04-12-2013, 11:32 AM

I understand your point view,luckily enough I'm not a big fan of M.J. so I don't have to make that decision!

Trollheart · 04-12-2013, 01:30 PM

I disagree entirely (and we had this conversation already in another thread): if I knew someone whose music I enjoyed was a racist/murderer/paedo I could not enoy their music any longer, or at least not as much as I had. F'r instance, though no big Gary Glitter fan, I wouldn't listen to his music now if you paid me.

I think it's difficult to separate the artist from their views, if they're extreme. Batlord and HHBH will tell you differently, and everyone's entitled to their view of course, but I would not be comfortable listening to --- and enriching -- someone who practiced something I was against, in a very extreme way, such as the ones mentioned above.

Burning Down · 04-12-2013, 05:17 PM

I felt this way for a long time about Richard Wagner. Wagner was a German nationalist, very anti-Semitic and generally a white supremacist. He was Hitler's favourite composer of all time because he promoted the same ideals about attaining the pure German society, and Hitler made Wagner the official music of Germany and the Nazi Party. For many years, his music was banned in Israel.

Now I'm just ambivalent about all of that because he does have some really great compositions.

edwardc77 · 04-12-2013, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning Down

I felt this way for a long time about Richard Wagner. Wagner was a German nationalist, very anti-Semitic and generally a white supremacist. He was Hitler's favourite composer of all time because he promoted the same ideals about attaining the pure German society, and Hitler made Wagner the official music of Germany and the Nazi Party. For many years, his music was banned in Israel.

Now I'm just ambivalent about all of that because he does have some really great compositions.

There was an episode of Curb your Enthusiasm that dealt with Wagner:

Curb Your Enthusiasm Wagner - YouTube

PoorOldPo · 04-13-2013, 04:03 PM

I dunno, isn't this similar to the battle between subjectivity and objectivity? If music is good it is good, you could be completely ignorant to the artist and who they are, and you hear their music and it gives you pleasure, that is all that matters when you hear the music, and all that matters music-wise.

gunnels · 04-13-2013, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning Down

I felt this way for a long time about Richard Wagner. Wagner was a German nationalist, very anti-Semitic and generally a white supremacist. He was Hitler's favourite composer of all time because he promoted the same ideals about attaining the pure German society, and Hitler made Wagner the official music of Germany and the Nazi Party. For many years, his music was banned in Israel.

Now I'm just ambivalent about all of that because he does have some really great compositions.

I'm actually rather grateful that I dislike Wagner's music to start with, so I don't feel unjust in calling him a blemish on the history of music lol.

But at the same time...well, ya know I don't think Charles Manson's music is horrible. Some of what I've heard has some really neat vocal textures and guitar rhythms. Still, I don't own an album or have his music on my computer because, well, he's Charles ****ing Manson and I can only imagine the social backlash I'd get if someone found out.

Burning Down · 04-13-2013, 04:54 PM

If Wagner was alive today, I'm pretty sure he'd be a member of the Ku Klux Klan.

edwardc77 · 04-13-2013, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning Down

If Wagner was alive today, I'm pretty sure he'd be a member of the Ku Klux Klan.

I'm not too sure about that,in the early 19th century racism,antisemitism and colonialism were widely respected beliefs even within the economic and cultural elite. Nowadays it is the contrary,I'm pretty sure that Wagner would feel very uncomfortable to be associated with "the poor and stupid" that attend most white supremacy movements.

04-12-2013, 11:20 AM	#1 (permalink)
edwardc77 Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Italy Posts: 128	The separation between the artist and his music. Here’s my question for you guys…suppose that you really like an artist, you like his songs, you bought all his albums, and you listen to his music every day and so on…. Then you discover that this person who you admire so much has extreme views regarding race or politics (he's a racist) or that he will be convicted for a serious crime like rape or murder. What would you do? Would you keep on enjoying his music even if you knew that he is “bad person", thus separating his music from his behavior. But wouldn’t this be like accepting a double standard? Do artists deserve a special treatment? Here's an example: If found out that my neighbor was a child molester, I would completely despise him, but since Michael Jackson is so talented I will still listen and enjoy his music regardless of his conduct....Would that be ok to do? __________________ Thought he lost everything then he lost a whole lot more.... Last edited by edwardc77; 04-12-2013 at 11:29 AM.

04-12-2013, 11:32 AM	#3 (permalink)
edwardc77 Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Italy Posts: 128	I understand your point view,luckily enough I'm not a big fan of M.J. so I don't have to make that decision! __________________ Thought he lost everything then he lost a whole lot more....

04-12-2013, 01:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,970	I disagree entirely (and we had this conversation already in another thread): if I knew someone whose music I enjoyed was a racist/murderer/paedo I could not enoy their music any longer, or at least not as much as I had. F'r instance, though no big Gary Glitter fan, I wouldn't listen to his music now if you paid me. I think it's difficult to separate the artist from their views, if they're extreme. Batlord and HHBH will tell you differently, and everyone's entitled to their view of course, but I would not be comfortable listening to --- and enriching -- someone who practiced something I was against, in a very extreme way, such as the ones mentioned above. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

04-13-2013, 04:03 PM	#7 (permalink)
PoorOldPo Blue Pill Oww Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Luimneach, Eire Posts: 1,107	I dunno, isn't this similar to the battle between subjectivity and objectivity? If music is good it is good, you could be completely ignorant to the artist and who they are, and you hear their music and it gives you pleasure, that is all that matters when you hear the music, and all that matters music-wise. __________________ https://www.instagram.com/hennas.lullaby/

04-12-2013, 05:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
Burning Down The Music Guru. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Beyond the Wall Posts: 4,858	I felt this way for a long time about Richard Wagner. Wagner was a German nationalist, very anti-Semitic and generally a white supremacist. He was Hitler's favourite composer of all time because he promoted the same ideals about attaining the pure German society, and Hitler made Wagner the official music of Germany and the Nazi Party. For many years, his music was banned in Israel. Now I'm just ambivalent about all of that because he does have some really great compositions.

04-13-2013, 04:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
Burning Down The Music Guru. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Beyond the Wall Posts: 4,858	If Wagner was alive today, I'm pretty sure he'd be a member of the Ku Klux Klan.