Music Banter

Go Back   Music Banter > The Music Forums > General Music
Register Blogging Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Welcome to Music Banter Forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with over 70,000 other registered members. After you create your free account, you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 1,100,000 posts.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-21-2014, 09:12 AM   #41 (permalink)
Music Addict
 
Necromancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,622
Default

I would take Quincy Jones and Michael Jackson over the Beatles in the studio any day.

Last edited by Necromancer; 01-21-2014 at 09:20 AM.
Necromancer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 09:18 AM   #42 (permalink)
silky smooth
 
YorkeDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 3,674
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necromancer View Post
I would put Quincy Jones and Michael Jackson up against the Beatles in the studio any day.
more of his innovations to me are with the music videos, performance, and dance type of things to me. at least an interesting argument can be made for Jackson, unlike the majority of ridiculous answers in this thread like ****ing Bjork

Quote:
Er... did you not even read my previous comment? I'm talking about how, during the change in direction that you're talking about, they began mining further back, past early rock, into the heart of the 1900-1965 era you dislike so much.
and then they took those influences and actually used them in interesting, innovative ways by combining them with rock music. gotta love the sitar.
__________________
http://cloudcover1.bandcamp.com/
http://daydreamsociety.bandcamp.com/

Think about how life sucks -> Vent about it on MusicBanter -> Make no progress towards improving life because limited free time is wasted on MusicBanter -> Think about how life sucks
YorkeDaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 09:21 AM   #43 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,304
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necromancer View Post
I would put Quincy Jones and Michael Jackson up against the Beatles in the studio any day.


Same!


But see I can go on youtube and find demos that Michael had made at his house before the demos even got to Quincy.

The demos are not that much different from Quincy finishes.

I think people give Quincy a little bit to much credit especially since Michael wrote all the songs himself and came up with the bass lines and rhythms in his head.

Quincy did not do that, he just put the music together but he did not come up with those rhythms.

I think MJ is really underrated as a songwriter and producer.

Most people dont even know Michael wrote most of his pop songs HIMSELF

ex. Wanna Be Startin Something, Billie Jean, Beat It, The Girl Is Mine Smooth Criminal, Dirty Diana, The Way You Make Me Feel, etc'

He also produce alot of them too

He also wrote alot of the songs he did with his brothers too.


He was not just an entertainer, he was every bit of an artist as well.
Soulflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 09:23 AM   #44 (permalink)
Mate, Spawn & Die
 
Janszoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,041
Default

I have to say I'm finding it incredibly hard to come up with a single answer to the OP. When you start thinking about this question I think it's easy to get hung up on people who were influential, but that isn't necessarily an indicator of who is the most innovative person out there. Innovation doesn't always translate into influence. Which brings me to one possible contender for me: Harry Partch. The guy created his own weird-ass instruments to play his weird-ass music. Hell, he even came up with his own scales and his own notes! I think he at least warrants a mention in a "most innovative" discussion.

Here's what he was doing in 1952:

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by P A N View Post
i'm not gonna spend my life on music banter trying to convince people the earth is flat.
A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man

Time & Place

25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die


last.fm
Janszoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 09:25 AM   #45 (permalink)
Neo-Maxi-Zoom-Dweebie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: So-Cal
Posts: 3,653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necromancer View Post
I would take Quincy Jones and Michael Jackson over the Beatles in the studio any day.
NO.

I haven't heard Frank Zappa's name yet but I consider him to be extremely innovative with sound. Sure he took what Hendrix started and ran with it, but there weren't many more eclectic albums then Mr Zappa's.
__________________
" I slashed and burned thru my 15 minutes of fame."
FRED HALE SR. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 09:26 AM   #46 (permalink)
Music Addict
 
Necromancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,622
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtalk92 View Post
Same!


But see I can go on youtube and find demos that Michael had made at his house before the demos even got to Quincy.

The demos are not that much different from Quincy finishes.

I think people give Quincy a little bit to much credit especially since Michael wrote all the songs himself and came up with the bass lines and rhythms in his head.

Quincy did not do that, he just put the music together but he did not come up with those rhythms.

I think MJ is really underrated as a songwriter and producer.

Most people dont even know Michael wrote most of his pop songs HIMSELF

ex. Wanna Be Startin Something, Billie Jean, Beat It, The Girl Is Mine Smooth Criminal, Dirty Diana, The Way You Make Me Feel, etc'

He also produce alot of them too


He was not just an entertainer, he was every bit of an artist as well.
It was more of what Jackson learned in the studio by recording with Quincy Jones the same can be said with Barry Gordy as well.
Necromancer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 09:36 AM   #47 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,304
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necromancer View Post
It was more of what Jackson learned in the studio by recording with Quincy Jones the same can be said with Barry Gordy as well.
I think Michael definitely learned alot from Berry Gordy and Quincy, Berry Gordy especially. By the time Michael collaborated with Quincy he had already been in the industry for over a decade and had written songs while with the "The Jacksons"
He learned alot from Stevie Wonder as well (in the songwriting department)

I just think people cite Quincy for coming up with the instrumentation for alot of Michaels music that Michael actually came up with himself.

Michael used real instruments that HE played in his demos at his house before he gave his demos to Quincy and these demos sound EXACTLY like Quincy finishes.



I just dont see how someone could give Quincy all the credit when Michael came up with all the beats and rhythms in his head and Quincy just put it together.

I am not trying to minimize Quincy's role but I think he gets undeserving credit for coming up with songwriting and rhythms that Michael came up with himself.

There was alot of friction between him and MJ during BAD because of this

I respect Quincy and I think he is a genius but he gets a little bit to much for Michaels works that he did all himself.

I think they are both geniuses
Soulflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 10:29 AM   #48 (permalink)
dca
Music Addict
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 69
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRED HALE SR. View Post
NO.

I haven't heard Frank Zappa's name yet but I consider him to be extremely innovative with sound. Sure he took what Hendrix started and ran with it, but there weren't many more eclectic albums then Mr Zappa's.
this is a good shout, probably was in a few ways. Zappa was a true maverick.

someone else who's name hasn't come up is Sun RA. he was on a different level

people arguing Michael Jackson is an innovator...is he? what did he innovate? remember things like dancing ability (he definitely didn't invent the moonwalk btw), songwriting skills, cultural mass appeal, record sales, and having a really great team of image stylists does not constitute 'innovation'... you could be in the top tier worldwide at all those things and still not be an innovator
dca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 11:33 AM   #49 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,304
Default

^See post #41
Soulflower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 11:55 AM   #50 (permalink)
stay the |fvck| inside
 
Frownland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: North of Antarctica
Posts: 33,183
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janszoon View Post
I have to say I'm finding it incredibly hard to come up with a single answer to the OP. When you start thinking about this question I think it's easy to get hung up on people who were influential, but that isn't necessarily an indicator of who is the most innovative person out there. Innovation doesn't always translate into influence. Which brings me to one possible contender for me: Harry Partch. The guy created his own weird-ass instruments to play his weird-ass music. Hell, he even came up with his own scales and his own notes! I think he at least warrants a mention in a "most innovative" discussion.

Here's what he was doing in 1952:

Forgot about Partch, he's pretty great. I'm still unable to wrap my head around just intonation (playingwise, that is, I love listening to it) because of the notes not being even. With Schoenberg and others who went beyond the 12 note music, there was still an even interval between notes; it's not so with Partch's 43 tone scale.

Also saw Stockhausen earlier in this thread. I think he would be #2 on my list of innovation behind Cage, who I've already mentioned in this thread.

As far as Michael Jackson is concerned, he was innovative in some ways as realtalk pointed out. However, so many other artists push him out of the running for the most innovative. The Beatles had a big effect on music, but I don't consider that innovation if they're recycling old ideas.
__________________
At a time like this, scorching irony, not convincing argument, is needed.


Last edited by Frownland; 01-21-2014 at 12:01 PM.
Frownland is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads



© 2003-2020 Advameg, Inc.