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The Batlord 04-12-2015 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylstew (Post 1575860)
So basically, Crust + early death = grindcore?
You're right, the second half does sound pretty death.

edit: This is starting to give me headaches, but I think I'm coming to the conclusion that Grindcore is both punk and metal, Crust and powerviolence are Punk with some light metal influences, and modern hardcore is still a mystery. So I think I'm partially wrong, partially right.

Trying to make it cut-and-dry is pointless. By the nineties, thrash, death metal, and black metal were distinct genres, but throughout the eighties the distinctions between them (not to mention grindcore and even hardcore) could be so vague that classifying them is only useful in hindsight. Sarcofago was somewhere inbetween all three, early Sepultura likewise. Even early Slayer could just as easily be called first-wave black metal. Other bands that are called thrash, such as Sodom and Destruction, have early albums that are considered black metal. Obituary has a heavy Celtic Frost/Hellhamer influence the same as the Norwegian black metal bands. Listen to early Death demos and you can see a straight line going from those same influences until they finally record their debut which is death metal that's still not removed from thrash.

When genres are developing they're just too linked to multiple other genres for classification to be black and white.

Janszoon 04-12-2015 04:57 AM

Powerviolence, especially a band like Man is the Bastard, doesn't sound like "punk with light metal elements" at all, it sounds like something quite far removed from punk.

And what Industrial elements are you referring to in Grindcore? There's nothing about Grindcore that's ever seemed Industrial influenced to me. I can hear an Industrial influence in Powerviolence for sure but not in Grindcore.

Janszoon 04-12-2015 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1575867)
Trying to make it cut-and-dry is pointless. By the nineties, thrash, death metal, and black metal were distinct genres, but throughout the eighties the distinctions between them (not to mention grindcore and even hardcore) could be so vague that classifying them is only useful in hindsight. Sarcofago was somewhere inbetween all three, early Sepultura likewise. Even early Slayer could just as easily be called first-wave black metal. Other bands that are called thrash, such as Sodom and Destruction, have early albums that are considered black metal. Obituary has a heavy Celtic Frost/Hellhamer influence the same as the Norwegian black metal bands. Listen to early Death demos and you can see a straight line going from those same influences until they finally record their debut which is death metal that's still not removed from thrash.

When genres are developing they're just too linked to multiple other genres for classification to be black and white.

Exactly. That's why I say 80s hardcore was clearly a subgenre of punk but later hardcore is its own thing by and large.

Dylstew 04-12-2015 05:46 AM

I..I dunno, I'll just shut up, say I'm wrong and stop thinking about this.

Janszoon 04-12-2015 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylstew (Post 1575875)
I..I dunno, I'll just shut up, say I'm wrong and stop thinking about this.

There's not really any right or wrong here. It's a lot of gray areas. We're just choosing different places to draw boxes around things for different reasons.

Dylstew 04-15-2015 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon (Post 1575876)
There's not really any right or wrong here. It's a lot of gray areas. We're just choosing different places to draw boxes around things for different reasons.

Yeah, you're right, I guess my perception of punk is just really broad.

HellCell 04-17-2015 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two Spirit (Post 1444716)
Here's mine:

- Songs that take forever to end.

I'm not talking about long songs in general, but instead I'm referring to those songs that drag on and on long after the chorus/verses are done. It usually includes drawn out guitar solos, random gibberish or electronic sounds, or sometimes minutes of complete silence for no reason. Marilyn Manson is guilty or this, with many of his tracks ending way after they needed to.

^This

Robke 04-18-2015 10:44 AM

Playing fast for sake of playing fast

Janszoon 04-18-2015 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robke (Post 1578533)
Playing fast for sake of playing fast

As opposed to what? Playing fast to power an airplane?

Robke 04-18-2015 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon (Post 1578571)
As opposed to what? Playing fast to power an airplane?

As opposed to, for example, learning how to play over actual chord changes or at least having a clear melody line.


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