Why do people blame Nirvana for killing Hair Metal?

~~Soulflower~~ · 10-01-2014, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musicwhore A-Z

Great questions 'Soulflower'. To answer the thread question first, Nirvana simply received the most airplay not only on radio, but on MTV's 'Headbanger's Ball' AND '120 Minutes', respectively. Truth be told, there were only a handful of bands that "crossed over" like that at the time.

Also, a new generation of teens had emerged in 1991 and simply couldn't get behind what the hard rock bands of the 80's were doing. The tide was turning, so naturally the music of the era would follow suit. The music went into a darker direction, and rightfully so. You had the Gulf War, the Rodney King beating/police brutality in general, and the ultra conservative Bush/Quayle years. The social/political climate of the early 90's was our "late 60's", so to speak. Frankly, young people were searching for "the real deal" in popular music and many found it in bands like Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and for myself, Warrior Soul. A band ( from New York by the way...

, but who cares? Their scathing social commentary in the songs preceded the "heavier" direction rock would take in the coming decade in my opinion ) that got lost in the shuffle because they were somewhat on the cusp of "hair metal" and "grunge". Two labels that I despise by the way. But I digress (

).

Having said all that, I think the BANDS of the era "blame" Nirvana more than the "people" do, so to speak. Personally, I blame the RECORD LABELS more than anyone else. Yes, the formula became tiresome, however, that "genre" made a SELECT few in the industry MILLION$! One could argue that "hair metal" suffers the same stigma not unlike disco a decade earlier. Fad or not, time has been kind to the music more than it's given credit for. Some in the radio business have deemed it "the new classic rock", rightly or wrongly.

Be that as it may, YES, the Seattle scene was definitely a breath of fresh air! It was a great time, and the shot in the arm that rock NEEDED at the time without question. While I can't say I was a huge fan of Nirvana, I loved Alice In Chains, Soundgarden, and the Melvins to name a few. Dark or not, the music simply ROCKED, and that's all that mattered to me. As a prodigy of the "hair metal" era, I absolutely embraced the early 90's with ease. Then again, I had just turned 21 a few weeks prior to Nirvana's 'Nevermind' release ( Sept. 1991 ), so clearly I was young enough to enjoy what was to come at that time. No qualms whatsoever from this Gen X-er! Good times, and GREAT thread (

). Interesting comments everybody both pro and con.

Great post.

This is why sometimes I get bewildered with why some people don't care about how badly today's popular music is on this site lol I don't even listen to a lot of current pop music but it is something that is visibly different. I personally would give anything to have grown up in the 80's, 90's hell 70's since that mostly all the era of music I listen too.

If I had grown up in those era's I would be disappointed in how pop music has changed so badly for today's era.
You make a lot of good points. The music of the early to mid 90's overall is more social and political across the board and a lot of that has to do with the cultural and social issues/events that took place during that period.

I think record labels/industry definitely had some influence on their popularity just like they have control over how pop stars are marketed today.

I think Hair/Metal is not regarded the same as Disco. I think Hair metal gets way more respect. I actually think Disco deserves more respect than Hair Metal in in some ways but it is an underrated genre overall, fad or not.

I am lovin Nirvana so far! I love their edge!

**Janszoon** · 10-01-2014, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

Why do you think Grunge music had such a short run? Do you think it made a negative impact on rock music overall?

It had a short run because there wasn't really much to it. It was a label that got slapped on a bunch of not-that-similar bands just because of timing and location, but it wasn't a coherent thing that was going anywhere. The bigger picture of rock in the 90s was the rise of alternative rock, which included grunge, and which has continued on to this day metamorphosing from decent music into horribly bland garbage. As Urban mentioned above, the whole grunge/alternative thing was really the last gasp of popular rock music before the long deflation that followed.

I'm pretty neutral about grunge's impact. I appreciate it for the large role it played in eliminating the crappy guitar soloing that had dominated most popular rock since the 70s, but overall it was just a regurgitation of the underground rock of the 80s and wasn't adding much to the equation aside from popularizing things that had been previously more niche.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

I think Hair/Metal is not regarded the same as Disco. I think Hair metal gets way more respect. I actually think Disco deserves more respect than Hair Metal in in some ways but it is an underrated genre overall, fad or not.

I totally disagree that hair metal gets more respect than disco. Hair metal is, justifiably, much more of a subject of mockery than disco. Despite the initial backlash shortly after the disco era, disco has gone on to be regarded as great, classic party music that, in it's own subtle way, actually stood for things like racial, gender and sexual orientation equality. Hair metal is remembered for its cheesiness and ridiculousness. The very fact that we're both sitting here calling it "hair metal" is a good example of how it's perceived. Nobody called it "hair metal" back when it was popular, that's a derisive name for it that was coined after it had gone out of style, by people mocking it for its shallowness. The fact that it's the common name for it now just goes to show how people feel about it.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 10-01-2014, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Despite the initial backlash shortly after the disco era, disco has gone on to be regarded as great, classic party music that, in it's own subtle way, actually stood for things like racial, gender and sexual orientation equality. Hair metal is remembered for its cheesiness and ridiculousness.

Not only that it was hugely influential in dance music. I would say easily the album that got the most attention everywhere last year was Daft Punk's album, there's a tribute to Giorgio Moroder on it.
Says everything really.

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 10-01-2014, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

Not only that it was hugely influential in dance music. I would say easily the album that got the most attention everywhere last year was Daft Punk's album, there's a tribute to Giorgio Moroder on it.
Says everything really.

Yes. I really enjoyed that album. It's interesting to see Jans, Urban and Music Whore's experiences with music in the 90's. I was too young and really only caught on to music from 1996 onwards, so I wouldn't really know whether Nirvana was the reason hair metal ended. I do believe disco is far better than hair metal to most people. Although I do have a soft spot for Def Leppard.

~~Soulflower~~ · 10-01-2014, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

It had a short run because there wasn't really much to it. It was a label that got slapped on a bunch of not-that-similar bands just because of timing and location, but it wasn't a coherent thing that was going anywhere. The bigger picture of rock in the 90s was the rise of alternative rock, which included grunge, and which has continued on to this day metamorphosing from decent music into horribly bland garbage. As Urban mentioned above, the whole grunge/alternative thing was really the last gasp of popular rock music before the long deflation that followed.

Thanks!
I wonder what made them name it "grunge" it makes it sound demonic and I think that is awful because I think in a lot of ways the genre has a lot of soul and meditating undertones to it.

I also hear people say that the genre influnced the bubble gum bands like Panic at the Disco, My Chemical Romance, The Killers, All American Rejects, etc do you disagree with that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I'm pretty neutral about grunge's impact. I appreciate it for the large role it played in eliminating the crappy guitar soloing that had dominated most popular rock since the 70s, but overall it was just a regurgitation of the underground rock of the 80s and wasn't adding much to the equation aside from popularizing things that had been previously more niche.

I actually love a lot of the 70's rock bands.I don't really listen to rock that much but when I do I always find myself listening to the 60's or the 70's. I think the 80's is when Rock was starting to lose its soulness/authenticity. You are probably right about grunge though. It probably was already a very established underground sound.

That is what happen with Neo Soul in the mid 90's. It was a underground genre and D Angelo/Erykah Badu/etc helped popularize it. Unfortunately, since then it has not been commercial. It also had a very short peak as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I totally disagree that hair metal gets more respect than disco. Hair metal is, justifiably, much more of a subject of mockery than disco. Despite the initial backlash shortly after the disco era, disco has gone on to be regarded as great, classic party music that, in it's own subtle way, actually stood for things like racial, gender and sexual orientation equality. Hair metal is remembered for its cheesiness and ridiculousness. The very fact that we're both sitting here calling it "hair metal" is a good example of how it's perceived. Nobody called it "hair metal" back when it was popular, that's a derisive name for it that was coined after it had gone out of style, by people mocking it for its shallowness. The fact that it's the common name for it now just goes to show how people feel about it.

I respectfully disagree with this post.

Disco is the most under appreciated genre to ever exist.

Apart of the reason why it is under appreciated is because the industry is quick to cite it as a "fad" or a certain craze during a specific period. I think they are quick to label it as these things because they don't view it as a serious musical genre which I think is sad because some of the greatest music, singers, and composers were Disco singers/artists.

I LOVE The Bee Gee's and find them to be very under appreciated. They were not only great singers but fantastic songwriters. How Deep Is Your Love and Staying Alive are some of the greatest songs ever written. I could not imagine someone else singing How Deep Is You Love with the same vulnerability and souless as Brian.

Same with my girl Donna Summer who did not get inducted into the Rock Hall of Fame until her death two years ago. She was snubbed at least 5/6 times for Hair Metal bands instead. She is definitely one of the greatest female pop singers for sure. She really made Disco into an art form and is criminally underrated.

A Taste of Honey, Chic and countless others are underrated Disco bands.

They actually snubbed Chic a year ago for the RHOF induction in place of Nirvana (Not that they don't deserve to get inducted because I think there impact speaks for itself but Chic is a 70's Disco band with an eclectic sound that was out before them).

The industry always gives accolades to Hair metal bands like Guns N Roses and Kiss over Disco acts and that is problematic especially in KISS case who were just a gimmick rock band. It is pretty ridiculous the amount of accolades they get. Hair metal gets way to much credit in my opinion.

**Janszoon** · 10-01-2014, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

Thanks!
I wonder what made them name it "grunge" it makes it sound demonic and I think that is awful because I think in a lot of ways the genre has a lot of soul and meditating undertones to it.

I also hear people say that the genre influnced the bubble gum bands like Panic at the Disco, My Chemical Romance, The Killers, All American Rejects, etc do you disagree with that?

No, I don't disagree at all. And it was called grunge because it had a dirty, grungy sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

I respectfully disagree with this post.

Disco is the most under appreciated genre to ever exist.

Apart of the reason why it is under appreciated is because the industry is quick to cite it as a "fad" or a certain craze during a specific period. I think they are quick to label it as these things because they don't view it as a serious musical genre which I think is sad because some of the greatest music, singers, and composers were Disco singers/artists.

I LOVE The Bee Gee's and find them to be very under appreciated. They were not only great singers but fantastic songwriters. How Deep Is Your Love and Staying Alive are some of the greatest songs ever written. I could not imagine someone else singing How Deep Is You Love with the same vulnerability and souless as Brian.

Same with my girl Donna Summer who did not get inducted into the Rock Hall of Fame until her death two years ago. She was snubbed at least 5/6 times for Hair Metal bands instead. She is definitely one of the greatest female pop singers for sure. She really made Disco into an art form and is criminally underrated.

A Taste of Honey, Chic and countless others are underrated Disco bands.

They actually snubbed Chic a year ago for the RHOF induction in place of Nirvana (Not that they don't deserve to get inducted because I think there impact speaks for itself but Chic is a 70's Disco band with an eclectic sound that was out before them).

The industry always gives accolades to Hair metal bands like Guns N Roses and Kiss over Disco acts and that is problematic especially in KISS case who were just a gimmick rock band. It is pretty ridiculous the amount of accolades they get. Hair metal gets way to much credit in my opinion.

The bolded seems like a pretty extreme claim to make. There are many, many genres out there in the world and few have sold as many records or packed as many dancefloors as disco. Do you really think disco is more underappreciated than chicha? Or zydeco? Or stride piano? Or narco-corridos?

Not really sure what to make of your complaints about The Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame. Of course they'd induct a rock band like Nirvana before a disco band like Chic. I like Chic a lot, but they're not a rock band and weren't particularly influential on rock music so of course they're unlikely to be inducted into a rock museum.

~~Soulflower~~ · 10-02-2014, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

No, I don't disagree at all. And it was called grunge because it had a dirty, grungy sound.

Why do you think such an alternative band influences so much gimmicky bands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

The bolded seems like a pretty extreme claim to make. There are many, many genres out there in the world and few have sold as many records or packed as many dancefloors as disco. Do you really think disco is more underappreciated than chicha? Or zydeco? Or stride piano? Or narco-corridos?

Not really sure what to make of your complaints about The Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame. Of course they'd induct a rock band like Nirvana before a disco band like Chic. I like Chic a lot, but they're not a rock band and weren't particularly influential on rock music so of course they're unlikely to be inducted into a rock museum.

Disco is a very underrated commercial genre. I was referring to the commercial genres and it most definitely is the most underrated amongst those genres. It also is the most discredited.

The Rock Hall of Fame started inducting non rock acts in the Hall way before the 90's. The argument that the Hall is rock oriented is pretty null and void at this point because the RHOF has an abundance of acts that are not rock so I feel that is not a strong argument.

I think Chic should have gotten in before them because they were influential and came out way before Nirvana. There are a ton of non rock acts that are in the hall.

Disco acts overall are criminally overlooked and snubbed not just in the Hall but just in general. I think the industry overrates Rock music period.

Musicwhore A-Z · 10-05-2014, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I totally disagree that hair metal gets more respect than disco. Hair metal is, justifiably, much more of a subject of mockery than disco. Despite the initial backlash shortly after the disco era, disco has gone on to be regarded as great, classic party music that, in it's own subtle way, actually stood for things like racial, gender and sexual orientation equality. Hair metal is remembered for its cheesiness and ridiculousness. The very fact that we're both sitting here calling it "hair metal" is a good example of how it's perceived. Nobody called it "hair metal" back when it was popular, that's a derisive name for it that was coined after it had gone out of style, by people mocking it for its shallowness. The fact that it's the common name for it now just goes to show how people feel about it.

Well stated 'Janszoon'. I completely agree that we NEVER referred to 80's hard rock as "hair metal" when we were kids. That label was placed on the music AFTER it's heyday for nostalgic reasons I imagine, fairly or unfairly. And compilations as well courtesy of the record labels re-selling the music simply to exploit it as a joke, hence the PEJORATIVE term "hair metal". Great comment (

).