Why do people blame Nirvana for killing Hair Metal?
 

Hey Music banter I am feenin for some music knowledge. As you guys know Rock is not really my forte so I wanted to get some info. I commonly hear Nirvana is the blame for the decline in Hair Metal in the late 80's and I wanted to know your opinion on it. I always thought Hair Metal was a fad that had already declined by the time Nirvana really became popular which was in the early 90's. Did Nirvana's popularity influence generic rock bands like Nickleback, All American Rejects, Panic at the Disco, Foo Fighters or Creed?

How would you define grunge music and was it something that really impacted rock music for the better?

I have always been confused with why Nirvana are so highly regarded (not that they don't necessarily deserve it but just want more clarification as to why)

I notice a lot of the rock bands have really faded out commercially.

I.ve always felt Nirvana was overrated but if they did kill hair metal then they deserve all the praise they get. I think Pearl Jam had more to do with influences on the crappy generic bands like Creed, Nickleback...etc. The mainstream market for the most part ignores rock acts as they can make more sales using one of their near pornographic pop stars with their generic dance music featuring some randon hip hop act guest appearance.

I have never heard anybody claim that Nirvana killed hair metal. What I do know is that Nirvana was one of the couple bands that were one of the big dogs when it came to the rise of grunge music, specifically in the Seattle music scene during the 90's, which they definitely deserved. Are the overrated? To me personally, I wouldn't say so. The reason I think they're so highly regarded is the same reason why people see the Big 4 of thrash as being highly regarded. They, along with Alice in Chains and the like were just "those guys" that really knew what grunge was and is about.

I just think it is very interesting because there was a time rock bands like Green Day, The White Stripes, AFI, My Chemical Romance, Alien Ant Farm, All American Rejects, etc ( I can not believe I can name all these bands from the top of my head lol) ruled the commercial scene for a bit at least until the mid 00's.

Why is Nirvana overrated to you? If Kurt Cobain had not passed away so young, do you think they would still be considered icons?

Maybe middle-aged dudes who never let go of their mullet still say that, but the only people I ever hear saying grunge killed anything are the whiny tools who bitch about it killing thrash metal. As if it wasn't a genre which had already been stale for several years.

It is a pretty well established music cliche which is why I really wanted more info about it since this is a rock oriented forum.

How would you define grunge music? Can you post some examples? When I looked some info on the genre I notice there are apparently sub genres within grunge itself.

I always thought KISS and hair metal was corny not sure why some rock fans are mad that it died off. It is actually good that it did...

I find that listening to the "pioneers" of the genre would be a better way to understand the genre. Alice In Chains, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, and Mudhoney would be a great start. Though I wouldn't say Mudhoney was much of a pioneer, though i've been proven wrong before.

Probably because they were the most prolific band of the sub-genre that took over rock after hair metal was starting to die off. I don't think they killed it, hair metal was becoming popular in the early half of the 1980s, and if you consider it an extension of glam rock even longer than that.

Grunge and hair metal aren't really all that different. Alice In Chains actually started out as a hair metal band in the late 80s.

Let me explain this by way of my firsthand experience: I started high school in the fall of of 1991 and at that time the biggest, most popular new music among my classmates was Guns 'n Roses simultaneous album releases of Use Your Illusion I and Use Your Illusion II and the Van Halen song "Right Now". Nobody in my high school except myself and my friends listened to alternative music at all. Then Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit" came out, and at first it was only popular among my friends, but suddenly it spread like wildfire, in a way that was completely unprecedented for an alternative type song to do at the time, and by the time winter rolled around everyone at my school loved Nirvana. After that came groups like Pearl Jam and the hair metal and hard rock that had totally dominated the consciousness of my classmates rapidly began to fade away. It was really pretty incredible how fast it happened. In retrospect, hair metal was kind of running out of steam, and changing to be a lot less flashy, by the time Nirvana came along, but it's definitely true that "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was the thing that really knocked it out of the game.

I can remember stuff like Janes Addiction, Faith No More, RHCP, Pixies, Soundgarden, Fishbone, Sonic Youth, Monster Magnet & Nine Inch Nails, hell even Neil Young edging out hair metal on rock shows on TV & radio long before I ever heard of Nirvana around 1989/90.
If Nirvana were the death blow those bands did the damage first.

I also think Hip Hop's role in this has kind of been ignored too, I know a hell of a lot of rock music fans bored of rock music who basically turned their backs on it to listen exclusively to hip hop around that time too.
Imagine you're a pissed off angry 14 year old Urban Hatemonger, are you going to pick up that Warrant album or are you going to pick up It Takes a Nation Of Millions.
No fucking contest.

Plus Hair Metal was never a really huge deal in the rest of the world as it was in the States. You look at the UK before Nirvana yes Guns n Roses, Bon Jovi and the bigger Hair Metal bands sold a lot of records but the most popular bands at that time here were bands like The Stone Roses, Primal Scream, Happy Mondays, Carter USM, Inspiral Carpets The Wonderstuff & Ride.

Who said this!? I have never ever heard this Jen.

Yes and no. Over here those were bands that the hip kids were into but were just kind of curiosities in the mainstream youth market. I'm a little confused by your inclusion of Monster Magnet though. Maybe they got big over there early, but I had never even heard of Monster Magnet until about 1997.

Monster Magnet's debut was released in Europe a year earlier than it was in the States.
I just remember them getting a lot of attention in late 90/early 91.

They still played Hair Metal on radio & TV here at that time, just a lot less than in say 86/87

I don't remember them making so much as a ripple over here at that time honestly.

I agree that 1987 or so was probably the high watermark but over here what seemed like it was taking over part of the public consciousness was stuff like Salt-N-Pepa, LL Cool J and MC Hammer.

The only hair metal bands I can think of who made any kind of splash in Europe after Guns n Roses were Skid Row & surprisingly Love/Hate who I don't think did anything in the States.
Stuff like Winger, Warrant, Kix and all those kinds of bands that came after barely made a splash here.

Well you guys really missed out on the whole "hair bands get serious" era where they all started writing "serious" songs played on acoustic guitars and/or pianos in black and white videos. Lucky you.

We had our fair share of that too.
I remember Richard Marx & Extreme having huge hits.
Every so often you'd get some hair metal band release a ballad that would do well, but it was more that the song was popular rather than the band itself.

Two old men fighting over Monster Magnet. ...I love it...

If Nirvana killed Slaughter and Firehouse, then they deserve everything they've gotten.

Shush
The men are talking.

Oops forgot my place, your tea is ready darling. .
Can I put my shoes back on as Im getting rather close to my final trimester. ..

*ahem* This glass of bourbon isn't going to fill itself.

Blame, celebrate, what's in a word, really?

http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/...e/c982a643.jpg

Good indeed! :laughing:

non corny hair metal....

Great questions 'Soulflower'. To answer the thread question first, Nirvana simply received the most airplay not only on radio, but on MTV's 'Headbanger's Ball' AND '120 Minutes', respectively. Truth be told, there were only a handful of bands that "crossed over" like that at the time.

Also, a new generation of teens had emerged in 1991 and simply couldn't get behind what the hard rock bands of the 80's were doing. The tide was turning, so naturally the music of the era would follow suit. The music went into a darker direction, and rightfully so. You had the Gulf War, the Rodney King beating/police brutality in general, and the ultra conservative Bush/Quayle years. The social/political climate of the early 90's was our "late 60's", so to speak. Frankly, young people were searching for "the real deal" in popular music and many found it in bands like Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and for myself, Warrior Soul. A band ( from New York by the way...:D, but who cares? Their scathing social commentary in the songs preceded the "heavier" direction rock would take in the coming decade in my opinion ) that got lost in the shuffle because they were somewhat on the cusp of "hair metal" and "grunge". Two labels that I despise by the way. But I digress ( :D ).

Having said all that, I think the BANDS of the era "blame" Nirvana more than the "people" do, so to speak. Personally, I blame the RECORD LABELS more than anyone else. Yes, the formula became tiresome, however, that "genre" made a SELECT few in the industry MILLION$! One could argue that "hair metal" suffers the same stigma not unlike disco a decade earlier. Fad or not, time has been kind to the music more than it's given credit for. Some in the radio business have deemed it "the new classic rock", rightly or wrongly.

Be that as it may, YES, the Seattle scene was definitely a breath of fresh air! It was a great time, and the shot in the arm that rock NEEDED at the time without question. While I can't say I was a huge fan of Nirvana, I loved Alice In Chains, Soundgarden, and the Melvins to name a few. Dark or not, the music simply ROCKED, and that's all that mattered to me. As a prodigy of the "hair metal" era, I absolutely embraced the early 90's with ease. Then again, I had just turned 21 a few weeks prior to Nirvana's 'Nevermind' release ( Sept. 1991 ), so clearly I was young enough to enjoy what was to come at that time. No qualms whatsoever from this Gen X-er! Good times, and GREAT thread ( :wave: ). Interesting comments everybody both pro and con.

Man, I forgot about the Dogs! Gotta go dig that album up and spin it! :thumb:

Believe it or not 'Soulflower' KISS was a huge influence on MANY of the bands from Seattle. By the same token, some of the 80's rock bands tried to somewhat distance themselves from KISS so as not to be associated with a "70's band". Unfortunately, rightly or wrongly KISS decided to ride the coattails of the same bands that THEY obviously influenced during the "hair metal" era. Go figure ( :crazy: ). Just thought I'd clarify that. Great thread.

I'm so sorry, it won't happen again Janzsy...

Well, at least you didn't give him beer. That would have been silly and immature.

Thanks I will definitely check these guys out.

It definitely is heavily influenced by it but they sound very different

Thanks for the responses beautiful people bare with me I have to get through all of these lol

Thanks!

I was listening to that song yesterday and I really like it!

The music video is interesting as well lol

Why do you think Grunge music had such a short run? Do you think it made a negative impact on rock music overall?

Thanks Urban and this is a really good point.

Hip Hop really began to take off in the late/early 90's commercially which also aided in fading out hair metal and other subgenres as well.

I really would like to know why Grunge was such a big deal because every time I go on other boards or discuss music with people, they always make it seem as though Nirvana was the most important rock band in the 90's.

Maybe they were but there were other really good bands as well in my opinion.

I think the reason people hung onto it for so long was because it was the last really big rock movement to hit the mainstream.

Since then nothing has come anywhere close, at least in rock music, unless you want to count Nu Metal, and I don't think too many people want to.

Gurl, I hear this ALL the time on various music sites, forums and music discussions. It is always said negatively like their sound was detrimental
to the progression of rock music.

lol

Great post.

This is why sometimes I get bewildered with why some people don't care about how badly today's popular music is on this site lol I don't even listen to a lot of current pop music but it is something that is visibly different. I personally would give anything to have grown up in the 80's, 90's hell 70's since that mostly all the era of music I listen too.


If I had grown up in those era's I would be disappointed in how pop music has changed so badly for today's era.
You make a lot of good points. The music of the early to mid 90's overall is more social and political across the board and a lot of that has to do with the cultural and social issues/events that took place during that period.

I think record labels/industry definitely had some influence on their popularity just like they have control over how pop stars are marketed today.

I think Hair/Metal is not regarded the same as Disco. I think Hair metal gets way more respect. I actually think Disco deserves more respect than Hair Metal in in some ways but it is an underrated genre overall, fad or not.

I am lovin Nirvana so far! I love their edge!

It had a short run because there wasn't really much to it. It was a label that got slapped on a bunch of not-that-similar bands just because of timing and location, but it wasn't a coherent thing that was going anywhere. The bigger picture of rock in the 90s was the rise of alternative rock, which included grunge, and which has continued on to this day metamorphosing from decent music into horribly bland garbage. As Urban mentioned above, the whole grunge/alternative thing was really the last gasp of popular rock music before the long deflation that followed.

I'm pretty neutral about grunge's impact. I appreciate it for the large role it played in eliminating the crappy guitar soloing that had dominated most popular rock since the 70s, but overall it was just a regurgitation of the underground rock of the 80s and wasn't adding much to the equation aside from popularizing things that had been previously more niche.

I totally disagree that hair metal gets more respect than disco. Hair metal is, justifiably, much more of a subject of mockery than disco. Despite the initial backlash shortly after the disco era, disco has gone on to be regarded as great, classic party music that, in it's own subtle way, actually stood for things like racial, gender and sexual orientation equality. Hair metal is remembered for its cheesiness and ridiculousness. The very fact that we're both sitting here calling it "hair metal" is a good example of how it's perceived. Nobody called it "hair metal" back when it was popular, that's a derisive name for it that was coined after it had gone out of style, by people mocking it for its shallowness. The fact that it's the common name for it now just goes to show how people feel about it.